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MiG 35 The New Formidable Challenger In The Skies

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by layman, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Let me get this straight it took ten years for India to assemble two Russian engines that normally fail 62 percent of the time when bought from Russia.

    It does not seem to take much for India to pat itself on the back.
     
  2. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    2 ? When I say 90%+ contract has been completed, it means 100+ engines have been delivered.And ~24 Engines a year is not bad.

    Around 40 aircrafts have completed their upgrade.
     
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    MAC FACES THE KNIFE

    January 18, 2016: In January 2016 Russia received the last of 16 MiG-29SMT jet fighters it ordered in early 2014. The Russian Air Force paid $30 million for each of these MiGs but really didn’t want them. The government insisted in order to keep the MAC (MiG Aircraft Corporation) from going bankrupt. That became a possibility in 2013 when it was revealed that Russia would not order 37 of MAC’s new (and still in development) MiG-35D fighters. Because of development problems the MiG-35 has been delayed from 2016 to 2018 and maybe later. You can see where this is going. Cancellation of the billion dollar MiG-35 order put MAC in a financial bind and the best solution seemed to be the purchase of more of the existing MiG-29SMTs. The 22 ton MiG-29SMT is an upgrade of the original MiG-29 with improved avionics, a more powerful engine and the ability to use smart bombs and missiles against ground targets. Thus it can carry 4.5 tons of bombs and missiles.

    Meanwhile MAC is running out of time, cash and options. It has orders for some MiG-29Ks (for use on aircraft carriers) and upgrades to Indian MiG-29s. Serbia is close to placing an order. MAC cannot expect much more help from the government which is dealing with a major cash shortage as a result of record low oil prices and trade sanctions because of Russian aggression in Ukraine.

    This is not the first time Russia has purchased MiGs mainly for financial, not military reasons. In 2006 Russia agreed to buy 28 MiG-29 fighters to prevent the MAC from going bankrupt. That crises was triggered when Algeria told Russia that it was cancelling the 2007 purchase of 28 MiG-29 fighters (for $1.3 billion) and returning the ones already delivered. Algeria insisted that there were quality issues and that some of the aircraft were assembled from old parts. The accusation turned out to be true and Russian prosecutors tried and convicted several MAC executives for passing off defective, or used, aircraft parts as new. Many of these parts made their way into MiG-29 jet fighters that were sold to Algeria.

    The MiG-29 has been in service since the 1980s, but stocks of Cold War era spare parts are still around, and it was suspected in the Russian aviation community that some of these older parts were put to use to build the Algerian aircraft. These are supposed to be "new" aircraft but some of their components were definitely not. Some MiG employees were very unhappy with the corrupt practices involving aircraft parts. This sort of crime often extends to parts for airliners. The MiG employees felt personally responsible for any defective aircraft leaving their plant and didn't want to be flying in an airliner containing fraudulent parts either. Russian prosecutors, already involved in an anti-corruption program underway for several years, jumped on these allegations and quickly found senior executives presiding over widespread fraud in the aircraft components industry.

    MiG hoped that the new 29 ton MiG-35 would save the company. Described as the equivalent of the American F-35, the MiG-35D would be the low-end to the high end T-50 (the Russian F-22). The T-50 is no F-22 and the MiG-35D is no F-35. The MiG-35D is a considerably redesigned MiG-29. The MiG-35D is armed with one 30mm autocannon and can carry over (by how much is not yet clear) five tons of bombs. The big selling point for the MiG-35D is its offensive and defensive electronics, as well as sensors for finding targets on land or sea. This stuff looks very impressive on paper but the Russians have long had problems getting performance to match promises. This is particularly the case with the advanced electronics of the MiG-35D, which are running into problems because the competing F-35 electronics set a very high bar. The MiG-35D has little stealth capability and first flew in 2007. There are currently about ten prototypes being used for testing and development work. The MiG-35D is expected to enter service some time before the end of the decade. The MiG-35D will sell for less than half of what the F-35 goes for (currently over $120 million each). Russia hopes to be able to buy a hundred or so MiG-35s after 2016.

    The 27 ton American F-35 is armed with an internal 25mm cannon and four internal air-to-air missiles (or two missiles and two smart bombs), plus four external smart bombs and two missiles. All sensors are carried internally, and max weapon load is 6.8 tons. The aircraft is very stealthy when just carrying internal weapons.

    The MiG-29 entered Russian service in 1983. Some 1,600 MiG-29s have been produced so far, with about 900 of them exported. The original MiG-29 was a 22 ton aircraft roughly comparable to the F-16, but it depends a lot on which version of either aircraft you are talking about. Russia is making a lot of money upgrading MiG-29s. Not just adding new electronics but also making the airframe more robust. The MiG-29 was originally rated at 2,500 total flight hours. At that time (early 80s), Russia expected MiG-29s to fly about a hundred or so hours a year. Reality was different. India, for example, flew them at nearly twice that rate, as did Malaysia. So now Russia is offering to spiff up the airframe so that the aircraft can fly up to 4,000 hours, with more life extension upgrades promised. This won't be easy, as the MiG-29 has a history of unreliability and premature breakdowns (both mechanical and electronic).
     
  4. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    So F35 is being brought because F22 is junk, F15 SE , F16 blk 52 and SH are king of junks ???
     
  5. The enlightened

    The enlightened 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    MiG 29UPG uses series 3 engines. MK is used by newer MiG models M2/K/KR and the MiG 35.

    But I agree over the earlier point. Buying more MiG 29UPG makes sense seeing the massive shortfall we are about to face in squadron numbers in a few years.
     
    nik141993, Sancho and Ankit Kumar 001 like this.
  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    If they work? Some countries have been sending their Mig 29s back, defective and old parts.
     
  7. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The Fatal Shame Of Russia
    by James Dunnigan
    July 29, 2013

    Russian prosecutors have finally completed their investigation and prosecution of those responsible for one of the most notorious cases of military corruption in Russian history: the use of obsolete and counterfeit parts in Russian warplanes built by Russian manufacturers. The last act of this prosecution was to give a suspended sentence to one of the corrupt officials who cooperated with the prosecutors and provided information on who was involved and how the scam worked. It all began in 2007, when Algeria told Russia that it was cancelling the recent $1.3 billion purchase of 28 MiG-29 fighters and returning the ones already delivered. Algeria insisted that there were quality issues and that some of the aircraft were assembled from old parts. At first Russian officials refused to believe the Algerians a year later, and after actually looking into the situation Russia agreed to reverse the sale. The government then bought the 28 MiG-29s from the manufacturer to prevent the MiG Aircraft Corporation from going bankrupt. At the same time the government began an investigation of the aircraft industry. Within two years several aviation company executives were tried and convicted for passing off defective, or used, aircraft parts as new. Many of these parts made their way into MiG-29 jet fighters that were sold to Algeria.

    The MiG-29 has been in service for three decades and stocks of Cold War era spare parts are still around, and it was first thought that some were put to use to build the Algerian aircraft. The Algerian MiG-29s were supposed to be "new," but some of their components were definitely not. Some MiG employees were very unhappy with the corrupt practices involving aircraft parts. This sort of crime often extends to parts for airliners. The MiG employees felt personally responsible for any defective aircraft leaving their plant and didn't want to be flying in an airliner containing fraudulent parts either. Russian prosecutors, already involved in an anti-corruption program underway for several years, jumped on the allegations and quickly found senior executives presiding over widespread fraud in the aircraft components industry. Some of these officials managed to avoid jail but not because they agreed to cooperate. But several others did go to prison and lost their personal wealth to pay heavy fines.

    The publicity this scandal received caused the government to look more intently into the counterfeit or defective aircraft parts situation. Russian aviation officials were alarmed when, upon inspecting 60,000 aircraft parts, they found that nearly a third of them were counterfeits. While most of the substandard fake parts came from neighboring countries, many were made in Russia. China wins first place when it comes to stealing technology and producing counterfeit goods, but Russia is solidly in second place, turning out about a third as many counterfeit goods as China. Russia's neighbors, many former parts of the Soviet Union, have the same bad habits. But Russia and China together produce about 80 percent of counterfeits. Using old and now substandard parts was just one variation on the crime of selling bad (cheap) parts as good (much more expensive) stuff.

    Western nations would like to get both Russia and China to crack down on the counterfeiting. That has not been easy. In both countries the counterfeiting is a multi-billion dollar a year industry, run by guys who know how to bribe the right politicians. The counterfeiters have another incentive to keep the prosecutors at bay, counterfeiting kills. Phony medicines and aircraft engine parts have both been linked to deaths in Africa and Asia, where the imitation goods are often sold. If brought to justice, Chinese and Russian counterfeiters would likely be executed.
     
  8. The enlightened

    The enlightened 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Meanwhile you are buying a 1.3 trillion dollar aircraft that breaks the pilots neck every time it takes off

    [​IMG]
     
    kiduva21 and Ankit Kumar 001 like this.
  9. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    It will work out and we will be selling 3 of them for the price of an obsolete 4th generation Rafale.
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes you will do that and pilots will keep dying. Its very shocking that a nation which has developed largest number of deck based fighter aircraft and especially CAT launched aircraft, has produced such a third rate aircraft and also accepted it in service.
     
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I don't notice that many pilots dieing and the problems will be ironed would, its part of the process.
     
  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The way the nose oleo of F-35 vibrates under CAT power is unique to it. I have not seen anything of this kind with anyother aircraft. Pls remember I too have done deck launches but in SH. There too, once we applied power, nose oleo used to compress and on releasing brakes, it used to jump up. We never faced such oscillations in Sea Harriers as F-35 pilots do. Even Raffy guys do not encounter such oscillations. Nor do F-18SH guys. Why only F-35?
     
  13. The enlightened

    The enlightened 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Actually 532\244 = 2.18 times more expensive F-35. That is if it meets program goals which it has never done this far. We can tentatively say it is 2.5 times costlier than Rafale.
     
  14. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    To date, the US is slated to buy approximately 2,443 F-35s at an acquisition cost of $379 billion.

    The $600 million is to be shaved off of the 10th Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP-10) contract, which is worth an estimated $9 billion for the delivery of 90 F-35s. That's 90 F35s for the price India is paying for 36 4th Generation obsolete Rafales.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-f35-price-reduction-2017-1
     
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Jeff Babione, the general manager of Lockheed Martin's F-35 program, echoed that sentiment at the company's office in the Washington, DC, area, telling reporters the company had worked on a few simple changes that seemed to yield results. Babione said Lockheed Martin changed the way the pilot straps in and their head and arm positions, as well as reduced the "holdback," or stress on the plane, in the moments before launch.

    "The initial indication is some of those techniques improved" the F-35C's launches, Babione said. He conceded that the real testing would be done by the Navy aboard carriers "to see whether or not those changes were successful."

    The make-or-break tests of the launch will take place at sea later this year.
    F18 does the same thing,, just not as much.
     

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