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Mirage-2000 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    When the last of the Mirage comes back from upgrades that would possibly be the time when the first ones should be either scrapped or maybe given to ARMY !!
     
  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Be honnest. This F22 was in the hand of the Rafale.

    And, strangely, or perhaps because GB doen't want to shame USA (LOL), we haven't see such a picture taken from an Eurofinger
     
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    NO, RDY 3 isnt of the same generation than Antilope radar of 2000D
    Antilope radar is only potent in A to G. It's just if it see a tanker at some km range ! It was produced for 2000N (nuclear) in early 1980.
    The 2000D version is a litlle bit more potent, produced during the 90.

    RDY3 is a derivative of RDY and RDY2 (used in M2000-5 and M2000-5mk2 + M2000-9). It's a true AtoA, AtoG and Air to Sea radar. Développed later Antilope. RDY3, if I remember well, is produced after 2000. It weights half the Antilope Radar (120kg vs 230)
     
  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No the upgrade will give 6000 h potential to the Mirage, that's two time the potential of a brand new Tejas.
     
  5. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    IT is one thing flying the plane, and its another for it to be capable
    The question is, would the Mirage 2000 after upgrade be able to fight against J-10 of PLAAF? No, J-10 is more capable, longer range missiles
    PAF has AMRAAM C5 and F-16 Out ranges Mirage 2000 in missile range and capability. Yes so Mirage 2000 can fly twice only if its flying few thousand kms away from conflict. say Gwalior for example
     
    Paliwal Warrior likes this.
  6. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Mica range is more than 50km. It depends of the PK you need, the altitude of fighter and chase.... Longer is the scope, lighter is the PK....

    During the last 90th, a Taiwan M2000-5 fired a Mica and destroy a target at 67 kms. So range is 67km minimum.
     
  7. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Still MICA does not have the range of R-77 or K-77M. The missile closest to range of R-77 might be a Meteor, but its not inducted in AdlA and its not going to be used by Mirage 2000, so Mirage is going to be stuck with Medium range MICA which is not really an advantage going against a plane armed with longer ranged R-77
     
  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Meteor is ready and be induced on Swedish Gripen this year.
    Adla doesn't have enough money to integrate it on Rafale before. And they wanted to induce AESA radar before. And they don't see the necessity (but commercialy speaking it was just impossible not to have it when Gripen and Eurofilter had. So with budget constraint the french order was cut from 200 to 100 pcs because Adla think, may be they are wrong, that such a range isn't usable so much).
    Mica has a special feature : its IR homming.

    Probably, if you request it very politely, we can give you all the keys so as to integrate your Astra mk 2 of 100km range on M2000.

    2 (or 4) mica for short and medium range + 4 (or 2) Astra for long range .... hummmmm..... Exciting !
     
  9. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    will it be able to face AESA fitted pak / china planes without AESA and with BVR missiles of max 50Km range ?
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes: ICMS III

    There is a link on ICMS
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  11. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    With the answer you got for the question is funny, Mirage 2000 an older tech how can it face planes with better capable avionics and longer anged missiles? Those planes will detect and shoot down mirage 2000 from a range.
    ICMS III is set of Receivers and Warning system. I am sure the french fanboys will try to spin it like something "semi SPECTRA"
     
  12. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I am not going to stress on the point about Budget at this point as it might take the discussion with some other direction.
    SAAB is more eager to put in everything top of the line in their plane, and their sales are better than Rafale or Eurofighter (assuming that "Eurofilter is a spelling error) At present Europe is not having conflict and there are less chances of them doing so, and in that case even MICA is good enough. But is Europe really building weapons for themselves or for Sales? The better market seems to be exports. Asia has a lot of conflict and it wont change, thus Asia and Africa might be the big markets for Defence. IR homing is good but then there are various counter measures. How the IR handles counter measures thats another topic. But if its comparing AESA seeker vs IR homing, I guess AESA seeker might be more capable.
    Mirage 2000 Radar does not have the range for very long range detection. Usually (and not a rule) the planes have a radar that has much longer range than the range of their missiles. Mirage 2000 using its radar not sure it can be effective to use ASTRA (with max advantage) the possibility being to be linked with AWACS or Su-30 MKI and use their longer range radar to give target co-ordinates.

    I think the Eurocanards might be the last hurrah of Europe, I doubt they would ever make a plane separately. The costs are simply too much for one country to bear specially when the required nos is not that big
     
  13. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Each country has it's own priorities. France air force prefer integrating first A to G armament (scalp, aasm) and A to G equipment (laser pod) instead of A to A. And these last 10 years, how many AtoA missile fired ? Zero. How many A to G shoot ? A lot. See Israel : how many Python, amraam fired ? a few. How many glided bombs, GBU, SDB ? A lot.

    During cold period, a fighter would necessary visualy recognised the opponent before shooting. No need of a high range missile.

    During a very high intensity conflict, air will be saturated of electronic jamming. There will be a lot of planes in the air same time, friends and enemies, moving fast. So even in this case is a high range missile essential ?

    Meteor seemed to me usefull to shoot an Awacs or a tanker, or to protect a carrier in the middle of the ocean. Not more.
     
  14. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You totally missed what I wrote.
    The main point was defence budget Gone are the days when countries had almost infinite amount of funds for defence now its not so. With cost of Rafale and Eurofighter crossing 200 million a piece the air forces that use (in majority) them will find it difficult to use and maintain them.
    The cost of using and flying the twin engine planes will be almost twice that of single engine plane. And also the cost would be at least 40% higher. France in a way would be wiser to upgrade its Mirage 2000 fleet and use it for another two decades. If it scraps the Mirage 2000 and depends on Rafale alone, the cost of using and maintaining them would in a way bankrupt France. The ideal ratio of single engine plane to twin engine fighters should be 3 : 1 By doing this the cost of operation could be in theory reduced to HALF.

    The Eurocanard that is similar to performance of Tejas is Gripen. Mirage 2000 does not even come close due to avionics (AESA Radar and EW suite) and Weapons (R-77 etc) but then Tejas could be offered at much lower price. Further India already Qualified different missiles on Tejas. Russian, India and Israeli missiles. So even American, British/German or French weapons could be qualified and that is one of the Selling point of Tejas. But also at the same time India cannot really export it at present because the requirement of nos is quite big for IAF and almost a decade will be required just to finish production to replace the nos of MiG-21 and MiG-27 and then there are the numbers of squadrons that IAF is short of. So that can be solved by having two lines.

    Anyway the point being that Mirage 2000 is not so capable as Tejas. Tejas is more better and efficient.
     
  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I'm affraid not to be the sole who doesn't understand you.
    And especially why you are so angry against France. A bad experience with a French girl friend ???? You want to speak about it? We can help you to feel better....

    Why do you always want to compare a 1970 vintage Mirage 2000 design and Tejas ? Mirage 2000 is no more produced until 7/8 years, and your baby not yet operational.
    If M2000 line was always busy, why do you think Dassault and Thales don't put an AESA on it? (one of the test bench of RBE2 was a M2000 ....). Why not modyfing tip of wings as Rafale to carry 2 more AtoA missiles? Why not integrate a powerfull M88 ? (M88 is from the beginning a family from 7.5 to 10.5 tons) Why not strenghening the 2 mid wing missile support for Meteor ? JUST BECAUSE IT'S NO MORE IN PRODUCTION.
     

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