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Mirage-2000 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    M2000 had a long and rich career. Fantastic plane at that time. Hundreds exported, involve in all the last conflicts. After all this years he still satisfies airforce across all the world. And this guy compare the heroic grandfather m2000 to a baby tejas that is not born yet handicapped even his parents don't want him anymore. The day the tejas 1 have a quarter of the m2000 career you could call that the most fantastic success of Indian military industry. Except that it will never happen. Tejas 1 was developed to learn and it fails.

    Concerning French girl they have higher standard than this guy. So it should be something else.
     
  2. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    English is not your first language and hence you cannot comprehend my posts, unfortunately seems to be that only French members are lost about what I write.. So I might assume that French rather have a weakness to understand english specially if the Google translate is not working properly.

    Why should I be angry about a country which I do not give RA about? But yes, just dont like the attitude of France which is trying to sell us junk and in return giving bribes and coming up with Statements like "Our country never gives bribes" So the anger might reside in fact that you consider that indians are naive and would accept everything that French would say at their face value. Unfortunately for most Indians they dont give RA about France either. So if you can understand this para. that might answer your second question.
    Now your third sentence. Lol Seems like am talking to a pimp, since you said "WE " is it a national occupation or thats part time job of each French?

    I am not the first to compare M2K with Tejas, was one of the frenchies, so please do take the matter with him. And yes Tejas is not operational and thats correct, but when its operational, it would be in service and so would Tejas. So what is wrong in comparing the premier single seat plane that France has with premier single seat plane produced by India? Or does it show the facts that the French have put all their eggs in Rafale basked that Mirage is really hopeless plane? After all it has only a mechanical radar vs AESA for Tejas (as planned)

    Thales did not put AESA on it because France cannot afford it. France in a way has focused on building what I would say "the best plane in France" and then Mirage 2000 development (or future upgrades) were automatically ignored) after country like France cannot support two projects. Another reason for not putting an AESA could be that M-53 may not generate enough power to power an AESA. but still I am going with the reason that France does not have money to upgrade M2K. Do you know Israel has developed an AESA for planes like M2K ? So then it might confirm that France does not have enough money to sport AESA on Mirage 2000. France will use Rafale for long range and heavy hitting and Mirage 2000 will be shorter range and would be supported by Rafales if needed. So need for an AESA as Rafale will be baby sitting Mirage 2000s.
    Why not using Meteor for M2K? The Range of Meteor is much more than the Radar of M2K. thus by the time M2K armed with say 4 Meteor missiles detects and targets a plane, the enemy would have 2 missile already towards M2K. One of the usual accepted rule is that the Radar should have longer range than missile. If the missile has longer range than the radar then I think the plane will be shot down before it can shoot off the missile. Further France did cut the order of Meteor from 200 to 100 rounds, is it not true? Thus for a fleet of 140 planes france can afford only 100 rounds. How would it look to have 100 Meteors to share between 400 planes? So they did not integrate it on M2K

    I guess all questions answered..
     
    zebra7 and ersakthivel like this.
  3. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I think you first should decide what conflicts are you talking about? Most were peace keeping missions with countries that do not have a credible air forces. In a way you are right, its an heroic grandfather. What is the point in armouring a grandfather and spending billions of it when you know your grandfather is on deathbed? Tejas has just started, and guess in few years we shall be having news in yet another exercise where Tejas beats Rafail in BVR and WVR, and do not be embarassed about it. The kid will learn fast. And where as Rafale, its an handicapped horse. You had to pay to get into a race.
     
  4. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    will, should shall... The kid is handicapped, and is rejected by his parents.
    perhaps his brother the MKII will be less retarded.

    The kid have to learn fast as it is born with 10 years of delay... unfortunately the only thing the kid is learning at the moment is visiting parking. but well we never now, miracles happen ahahaha
     
  5. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Dreamer. You know you are a dreamer ..... (Supertramp)
     
  6. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Award winning test pilot SUneeth krishna IAF group captain who enjoyed the richer carreer of Mirage-2000 by flying it for hundreds of hours in IAF, has clearly said that tejas mk1 is atleast on par with mirage-2000,
    Many test pilots have said the same too .
    So why such an anger when we say tejas mk1 is closer to mirage-2000?
    Even F-35 or pakfa hasnt begun their carrerr. Does that mean their makers shouldn't claim them to be better than miragage-2000?

    IAF tejas mk1 alone will carry both astra mk1-80 km range and mk2 100 plus Km range BVR missile. What is the longest range BVR on IAF mirage-2000 even after 45 million dollar per plane upgrade?
    Does mirage-2000 has a DRFM based fully internal EW suit?
    Will it ever carry ASEA radar?
    Can its clean frontal RCS reduced by less than a third of its present one?
    Can it have a higher p[ower engine as a next development?

    Nobody denies Mirage-2000 was and still is a good multi role fighter, it proved its worth in tejas,

    It is a couple of die hard rafale supporters who are failing hard to learn that tejas was no technology demonstrator and has an order book of 150 plus right now, with a brand new half a billion dollar production line ready to churn out 16 fighters in a year two years down the line.
    It is no tech demo guys, Three newer versions are under work mk1A with aim of ASEA radar and lesser (1 ton is the target) empty weight, naval teajs with Levcons and mk2 with 98 Kn ge 414 engine.
    Which tech demo has such a varied type development?
    Just accept it and relax.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    We answerd a lot to that.
    Stop comparing a fighter no more on production and another one at the beginning of.
    If an army needed aesa on M2000, we just have to put the aesa one of Rafale (Mirage was a test bed for it).
    So it is with Meteor.

    But Mirage 2000 is a proven horse. Tejas not yet.

    And LCA will never be a perfect fighter in all roles you want us to believe. Just accept it.
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    All test pilots endorse their aircraft. The pilots are being paid for that.

    The F-35 is the same. All test pilots were saying how good the aircraft is compared to any other. Then an operational pilot showed up and said the F-35 is a complete turkey when it comes to dogfighting. Until then all test pilots were lying. Now LM cannot lie about F-35's dogfighting capability.

    So don't go by what test pilots say. For them it's an agenda. It's an advertisement. The test pilots statements are controlled by the PR department of the company they represent.
     
  9. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    ^^^
    LCA is being tested by ASTE, ASTE test pilots are not controlled by the PR of any company, they are among the best pilots in India having flown thousands of hrs in the IAF/IN on various aircraft, some have paid the supreme sacrifice testing various aircraft. Show some respect. Secondly. ASTE pilots have always pushed for the LCA. Don't equate the F-35's testing to the LCA's. Its funny you say don't believe test pilots who have often flown thousands of hrs in various roles while you are quick to believe the 'test pilot' who flew the F-35 AF2. It was an operational F-16 pilot with over 1500 hrs in the F-16 that went up against the handicapped F-35.
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    As far as test pilots are concerned, I don't believe their words so easily. Especially when they run simple comparisons while talking to the media. What's more important is getting access to reports that they make on their aircraft. For LCA, we have none. What test pilots say to the media and what they actually think are never always the same. Only reports speak the truth. That's what we got access to with regards to the F-35.

    As for the F-16. The F-16 pilot wasn't trying to do anything. It is just a reference aircraft. The F-35 pilot is trying to 'kill' the F-16 at reference points.

    Like the F-16 is right above the F-35, the F-16 would have previously maneuvered to that position before the fight began. The F-35 is expected to maneuver to get behind the F-16. The F-16 pilot's experience doesn't matter during these tests beyond safety requirements.

    IAF has always pushed for the LCA. No doubt about it, not just the ASTE pilots. CAG report confirms that.
     
  11. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    i'm dubious...
     
  12. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    All compliments on rafale also come from french side only, Does that also mean they are all paid to do the same?
    When a IAF mirage pilot says that Tejas even in mk1 is atleast equal to mirage-2000 it counts for more than all the people supporting rafale post here.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Generally some aircraft are better in some regimes of flight, just because one test pilot says LCA is as good doesn't mean anything unless we know what he was talking about specifically. It's obvious that LCA Mk1 at 3.5 tons payload and M-2000 at 6.5 tons payload are simply at a different class.

    That's why don't go too much into test pilots. Operational pilots who have access to fly in operational capacity are at a better place to comment. Eventually, even they become biased towards their aircraft. That's why eventually, energy diagrams and reports give the best info.
     
  14. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    test pilots aare not paid to endorse the aircraft they test fly

    if we say test pilots of tejas are paid to and supposed to endorse tejas

    then by same logic

    french test pilots & IAF test pilots / IAF pilots who tested rafale were paid to endorse and recommend the Rafale - so we shouldnt beleive theier words claims too
     
  15. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    yes you are right IAF has always pushed for the LCA ................. to be closed & program to be delayed bad mouthed and shut forever
     

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