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Mirage-2000 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    you mean something like

    1. rafale fanboys claim Rafale has greater range than Su30MKI but convinienetly dont mention at what useful bombload and how many CFT / DTs

    2. When Rafale Fanboys & thier sidekicks claim it has RCS of less than sparrow when company claims it is only frontal aspect

    3. when rafale fanboys claims that rafale can shoot down Su30MKI from rear by firing MICA IR from behind SU30MKi from 60KM away convinienetly forgettinh that MICA range is 60Km and that those ranges are in head on mode in tailchase mode the range will be hardly 20Km
     
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    IAF pilots who tested Rafale are evaluators, they were not paid by Dassault.

    French operational pilots are not paid by Dassault either, but they are certainly biased about their aircraft. However, what we are more interested in are facts. Pilots do tell facts which are understood by other people with enough knowledge about what they are referring to. Like when they said Rafale is as good as F-22 in a dog fight, nobody believed them until HUD camera shots were shown along with video and scores during exercises. Now it's more believable.

    What the IAF pilot said about Tejas isn't a simple fact. One guy said Tejas is as good as Mirage-2000. But where is the proof when most of the factors are against Tejas.

    Some facts about the M-2000.
    Empty weight = 7.5T
    Payload = 6.5T

    Some facts about Tejas.
    Empty weight = 6.5T
    Payload = 3.5T

    In front of facts, simply saying Tejas is as good as M-2000 is simply BS that nobody will believe unless the pilot explains what he was referring to in particular. Just because Tejas is good in one regime doesn't automatically make it better than the M-2000.

    So proof or explanation is required. Data is the best proof. Foreign evaluators of Rafale provided data, other air forces the Swiss and Koreans. French pilots provided data about Rafale. Even F-35 pilots provided enough data about it. But the Tejas pilot did not provide any data, just a propaganda statement that nobody except fanboys will believe.

    I did not simply come to the assessment that Spectra is very good. When I first came to the forum, I was of the opinion that it was just an overrated jammer. I debated about Spectra with @Picdelamirand-oil for a year until he convinced me with explanations and data that the Spectra is indeed very good. He has provided a lot of information that is not easily available in the public domain. The revelation from the VP of Dassault finally had me convinced because everything they mentioned made sense.
     
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  3. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    so you mean

    IAF / ATSE pilots who test fly Tejas are paid by HAL ?

    Paid for what ? for test flying or giving a favourtable report & comment ?
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    No. But the pilot did not give data. As long as there is no data, don't take any general statement seriously. This is what logical people do in defence circles.
     
  5. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Test pilot are professional and part of top skills pilot. That is why the are test pilots. That doesn't change the fact that they are not objective. They are humans and passionates. Rafale test pilot are not objectives neither. The only interesting output from a test pilots if when they provide facts. That is rare. Usually they only talks about their feeling.
    Rafale were evaluated by non French Air Force, Rafale was piloted by English pilots. All these data are public and accessible. Concerning Tejas the only technical data avalaible shows that Tejas is effective is some domains but less versatil than the initial requirements. The fact that the mirage fleet was upgraded extending their life and the push from IAF for the Tejas II plus the technical data available make difficult and almost unrealistic the statement that Tejas is globally superior to the last updated m2000.
     
  6. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    what is important is that Tejas should be effective in the domain it was planned for at the desing stage & the current intended use domain

    ther is no point in comparing it to f35 f22 etc
     
  7. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    then focus you argument on data points not on who pays whom and for what

    Did Rafale test pilots provide data ?

    did IAF test pilots who evaluated rafale provide hard data or general statments ? pl provide link to those hard data
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yes. Lots. To the govt. That's why they shortlisted two, with Rafale being one of them.

    Check Swiss evaluations for hard data. IAF pilots have never provided information on Rafale, the Swiss did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  9. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Rafale is operational for the last ten years. Lots of data are avalaible and were published included on this forum.
    If Tejas would have been avalaible for the last ten years, we would not be obliged to speculate one a limited set of data.
     
  10. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    We Already know the Tejas 1 doesn't meet the initial requirements.
     
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    France reorganizes its Chammal deployment for operations in Iraq and Syria. The number of Rafale increased from 6 to 12 and the Mirage 2000 are removed.

    [​IMG]

    10 810 hours in 20 months for 6 Mirage until the 22 of february 2016 and 8 Mirage since this date, it's 463% of normal flying hours (200 h/year for French Mirage), That is to say 926 h by year and by Mirage or the normal flying hours of 33 Mirage.
     
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  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Air Force Fires Recently-Acquired MICA Missiles From Mirage-2000 Aircraft
    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-...ca-missiles-from-mirage-2000-aircraft-1465989


    [​IMG]


    Air Force fired MICA Missiles from Mirage Aircraft, an official statement said.(Representational image)

    NEW DELHI: The Tiger Squadron of the Indian Air Force (IAF) has successfully fired the recently acquired BVR (Beyond Visual Range) air-to-air MICA missile on a target from an upgraded Mirage-2000 aircraft, an official statement said on Saturday.

    "The missile achieved a direct hit on a target which was much smaller than an actual aircraft and flying at low altitude. The target was destroyed on impact, validating the missile's launch envelope," the statement said.

    The IAF has become one of the few air forces in the world with the capability of such missile. "The operational success of this mission confirms a critical capability of Indian Air Force," the release said.


    India purchased 450 MICAs from European missile major MBDA as part of the Mirage 2000 upgrade deal from France in 2012 for $1.23 billion. The MICA will be mounted on the 36 Rafale combat jets that India is purchasing from France, the deal for which was inked on September 23.
     
  14. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    An interesting thing about that test: it was done on one of the aircraft that were modernized by HAL (not on one of the two that were modernized in France by Dassault). So it demonstrates that the upgrade technology was successfully transferred.
     
  15. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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