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Mirage-2000 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    The pod used by IAF Mirage 2000H was a modified version of the Thomson CSF ATLIS LDP (not ATLIS II as widely believed)

    ai03-mirage2000h-105-2.jpg

    It was also used by the Iraqi F1s (I've heard a vague reference to 'LDP1 EQ Patrick', not sure how true that is)

    222esg7_by_michelum-d6oeb2z.jpg

    The first ATLIS was the result of a cooperation between Martin Marietta (since absorbed by Lockheed) and Thomson CSF. The Americans abandoned the project for the LANTIRN.

    numriser00014fc.jpeg

    The reason IAF went for Litenings on the M2Ks during the Kargil conflict was because these ATLIS LDPs didn't have night ops capability.

    0781102.jpg

    One more image from Aero India 2003

    M2KH Pylon Loadout 3.jpg

    bonne soirée!
     
  2. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There is no Blue on the roundel and no Greek Fin Flash

    Not French , definitely Not IAF .... then?

    Yes other source says

    missing pod2.jpg

    https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=pwrangshion&logNo=110127575774&proxyReferer=https://www.google.ae/
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  3. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    That's a Mirage 2000P of the Peruvian airforce that was used for 1000-kg bomb qualification in 1987 (Shown here with a BGL 500)

    Matra-BGL-ATLIS-S.jpg

    It was before the aircraft was handed over to the Fuerzas Armadas del Perú. Notice the absence of the fin-flash.

    0961315.jpg
     
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  4. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    So my initial assertion was correct...eventhough I wasn't even sure of it myself. Thanks for clearing that up, Tejas :smile:

    However, I'm still not aware of what is the purpose of these modifications (and what additional capability they bring)? What's the reason for the bulge on the underside and what's with the different tail section?
     
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  5. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    Not much is known about the ATLIS LDP (it was basically a prototype and never entered production as Marietta left the program before completion)
    The French offered the incomplete pods in limited numbers to interested customers and modified them according to the customer needs) The French completed the program and production version was named as ATLIS-II to avoid confusion.

    I'll do a quick search as see if i can dig up something.
     
  6. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    "Background. ATLIS development began in the 1970s as
    part of a joint effort between the French firm Thomson-
    CSF — which at the time had little experience in this area
    — and Martin Marietta. The result of that collaboration
    was the ATLIS I, a design intended to simply establish the
    feasibility of a laser designator on a single-seat aircraft.
    It
    flew successfully on a YF-16 in 1976, and went on to
    become the first targeting pod to be qualified on the F-16.
    This was followed by French testing on a Jaguar. The
    demonstration phase ended in 1979 when nine Texas
    Instrument bombs were launched successfully using the
    pod.

    Differing national requirements split the team that year;
    Martin Marietta went on to use its experience to build the
    LANTIRN pod (see separate report). The LANTIRN pod
    incorporated a terrain-following radar and wide-field-of-
    view FLIR with night and navigation capabilities in
    addition to its navigational pod. France had no such
    requirement at the time, and opted to develop a pod for
    daytime use only at first."

    "The ATLIS II name implies that it is a second-generation
    device. ATLIS was apparently the designation given to
    prototype units used during joint experiments with Martin-
    Marietta.
    The Roman numerals "II" seem to have appeared
    at about the time the two companies parted; evidence
    suggests that since that time, all ATLIS devices have
    actually been ATLIS II."

    Timetable
    Early. 1970s - Development began
    1976 - First flight, aboard a YF-16
    1979 - Demonstration phase completed
    Dec. 1983 - First French order
    1986 - First foreign sale
    Jan. 1991 - Used in Gulf War
    1992 - Night capability introduced

    (Source -https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=461)


    For reference, the IAF order for Mirage-2000H was placed in Oct 1982

    So possibly the ALTIS LDP had only laser-designators and did not have a TV channel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  7. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    C’est en 1975 en effet que Thomson-CSF conclut un contrat avec Martin Marietta Aerospace (devenu Lockheed Martin) pour le développement d’une nacelle de guidage dotée d’un télémètre et désignateur laser mis au point par CILAS. Testé par l’armée de l’Air sur Jaguar pendant plusieurs années, l’Atlis déboucha sur un système plus complexe désigné Atlis II associé à une visualisation de cabine et à un système de guidage (via digibus) adapté au tir de la bombe BGL 1000 et du missile AS30L. L’Atlis II fut ultérieurement utilisé sur les Super Étendard de l’Aéronautique navale lors de la guerre du Kosovo, pour assurer le guidage laser des bombes GBU-12.

    Translated:

    It was in 1975 that Thomson-CSF signed a contract with Martin Marietta Aerospace (now Lockheed Martin) for the development of a guidance pod equipped with a range finder and laser designator developed by CILAS. Tested by the Air Force on Jaguar for several years, Atlis led to a more complex system called Atlis II associated with a visualization of cabin and a guidance system (via digibus) adapted to the shooting of the bomb BGL 1000 and missile AS30L. Atlis II was later used on the Super Estendard Naval Aeronautics during the war in Kosovo, to ensure the laser guidance of GBU-12 bombs.


    So, the ATLIS-II introduced the TV channel.
     
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  8. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    Interesting read: (note that the report is talking about the prototypes, not the production version)

    ATLIS 2 LASER MISSILE GUIDANCE POD TO BE MASS PRODUCED

    (Source - https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00850R000100020035-0.pdf)

    Paris AIR & COSMOS in French 4 Nov 78 p 41
    [Article by Pierre Langereux]

    [Text] The French Air Force is undoubtedly going to be the world's first
    able to equip its single-seat aircraft with a pod for fire control and automatic
    objective designation by laser beam
    , in this instance the Thomson-
    CSF [Thomson-General Radio Company] Atlis 2 pod. As a matter of fact the
    air force has just authorized mass production of the Atlis 2 pod in order to
    equip the single-seat Jaguar and Mirage 2000. These airplanes will be able
    to use the French Atlis 2 pod for launching various laser guided missiles
    (utilizing the Ariel laser self-guidance of Thomson-CSF) such as the AS 30
    Laser air-ground missile of AEROSPATIALE [National Industrial Aerospace
    Company] (with range of 10 to 12 kilometers) and the 100-millimeter rocket
    of Thomson-brandt (with range of 1 to 6 kilometers) which has already undergone
    100 test firings from Mirage 3 and Mirage Fl airplanes, as well as the
    MATRA-SAMP 400-kilogram bomb in the project phase (with a laser head derived
    from the Ariel).

    Operational evaluation of the Atlis 2 pod, which took place from October
    1976 to January 1978 at the Cazaux Flight Test Center with a Jaguar was highly
    satisfactory. It proved that an experienced pilot could effectively
    operate the pod after only two training flights.
    The tests made it possible
    to verify the compatibility of the pod with the aircraft and the AS 30 laser
    missile; it even showed it was possible to spot objectives through a small
    cloud or fog bank, which had not been expected.


    The Atlis 2 pod, developed cooperatively by Thomson-CSP of France and Martin
    Marietta of the United States, will be massed produced for the French air
    force with Thomson-CSF as general contractor. The initial phase of the mass
    production comprises an evaluation (in progress)of the second prototype
    pod conforming to the production specifications (weight reduced to 125 kilograms,
    extended range of utilization, interchangeability, self-testing, interface
    with modern aircraft, and common logistics) as well as a qualification
    phase (mechanical tests, thermal tests, and so forth) with another pod, and
    fabrication of production tooling.

    Martin Marietta is participating in the definition of the production pod in
    order that it be compatible with the American F 16 airplane with a view toward
    Joint Frcnrh and American production of the Atlis 2. Martin Marietta in part-
    icular has with its own funds financed fabrication of a complete pod for
    flight tests aboard the F 16 which took place in July-August 1978 in the
    desert area of China Lake, California. The compatibility of this pod with
    the F 16 was demonstrated; likewise the performance of the system: stability
    of laser illumination from the airplane as good as that from the ground, and
    precision of guidance to various targets (tanks, mobile guns, and so forth).
    The tests also showed the feasibility of changing a missile's objective after
    launching and of attacking a group of from three to six tanks in a single
    pass
    (by successive designation of targets to the missiles after the first
    acquisition). An anecdote illustrates the performance level of the Atlis
    pod: the American pilots were amazed at being able to "track" a rabbit at
    distance of 3 kilometers from an F 16 flying at 150-200 meters altitude.

    The U.S. Air Force is very much interested in the Atlis pod, which is the
    only one now existing in the United States for single-seat airplanes; the
    other existing American pods (Northrop's LATAR and Westinghouse's Dave
    Penny) are designed solely for two-seat aircraft. The Atlis 2 pod is also
    of interest to NATO countries which have the F 16. It was recently shown to
    the British chief of staff as a pod associated with Sabre light laser guided
    air-ground missiles. The Luftwaffe is also interested for equipping its
    Phantom and Tornado aircraft. For its part the German Dornier firm is to
    study the feasibility of installing the pod upon the Alpha-Jet.
     
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  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    it is a PATRIC pod which is an export version of ATLIS.

    Since ATLIS was derived from a Martin-Marietta project, Thomson made this version to avoid any dispute.

    The bubble under the central section is empty, the fins on the air conditioning group are dummy and the flap replaces the protective helmet of the front window.
     
  10. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    There's your best answer @Jamwal

    Thanks much, Picdel!
     
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  11. Kane0610

    Kane0610 FULL MEMBER

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    I noticed that the IFR probe is missing. Where did it go? :unsure:
     
  12. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Removed.
     
  13. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    @Gessler - PKS has replied to you - Do post it here!
     
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  14. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I have followed it up with another conversation and I'll post all the info in relevant sections later :tup:
     
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  15. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    From PKSG:

    "To GESSLER: VMT & upon checking my brochure/air show visit note archives of the mid-1980s, I got the following information: France was on the lookout for developing a single unitary day/night navigation/targetting pod & so Thomson-CSF then got in touch with Martin Marietta, which had already developed the twin-pod LANTIRN system. Later, convinced that a twin-pod solution was unacceptable to the French DGA from an operational standpoint, T-CSF developed a single pod under the DGA’s Project PATRIC under which the pod had a bulged underside inside which T-CSF installed a Doppler altitude-finding sensor that was then already developed by Dassault Electronique & was originally meant for installation on board attack & CSAR helicopters of France. On combat aircraft, this sensor was interfaced with the on-board moving-map display for low-altitude (not terrain-hugging) navigation. Such pods, however, were not allowed for export & the export variant MINUS the height-finding Doppler sensor & night sight was designated as the ATLIS-2, which was subsequently exported to India, Iraq & Pakistan in the mid-1980s. The photo showing IAF Mirage 2000 KF-105 at Aero India 2003 shows it with both the ATLIS-2 pod along with Matra/Thomson Brandt BLG-66 Belouga cluster bomb & belly-mounted Matra laser-guided BGL."

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3545138702780178046&postID=168568650674082989

    @W@rwolf @GuardianRED @Picdelamirand-oil @Jamwal @Sancho
     
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