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Mirage-2000 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Information comes from a french forumer Ponto Combo On Air defense.net
     
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  2. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    The nomenclature still confuses me. The export version may have been called 'Patric' or 'Patrick' as @Picdelamirand-oil said.

    The version that India, Iraq and even Peru got was without night ops capability (I read it did not even have a TV channel) That came with ATLIS-II.

    ATLIS-II was the designation given once the program was completed. We ordered the pods even before the French did. So we didn't get the ATLIS-II as PKS pointed out.

    Also, the pods that PAF got was made by Marietta (which were the ATLIS-II version) while India, Iraq and Peru got them from T-CSF (export version of ATLIS-I or 'PATRIC').
     
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  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    More than anything alse, you shud be telling me what did you achieve by having FBW in M2K over F-1? Nothing. But you gained tons of money by selling an aircraft and over hyping its qualities which were inferior to what you had produced in 1961. You are doing the same stuff again by fooling idiots of IAF with Rafale.
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It's weird, but in a fight between a Mirage 2000 and a Mirage F1 I would prefer to be in the Mirage 2000. :rolleyes:
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    That was more due to sensors and ease of handling. You need to explain to us all, why French used F-1 as interceptor over M2K. Do you get it bro?
     
  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    But the ease of handling comes from FBW.
     
  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Thats what I wanted to tell you.Now apply the same FBW to F-1 and give it negative stability so that tail loads become lifting surfaces? What will happen? You will get an aircraft far superior to M2K. Canards do get advantage of vortex from them but they can't use high lift devices. The comparison I gave you even extends to Rafale. Give same thrust to F-1 with slightly more wing area with FBW and that aircraft will outperform Rafale also.
     
  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It's not so easy
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I think he's talking from a design perspective, not the fact that literally modifying the F1 will make it as good as Rafale. The materials and production standards were different after all.
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Correct. The F-1 will need a complete redesign internally to be able to use FBW. Externally it may remain same. But compared to the aircraft of its generation, it was far superior. If you create a F-class version of Rafale, that design will beat Rafale as we know today.
     
  12. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    If I remember well, F1 has no Delta because of a too high speed to land with classical Delta. And no FBW ready at those time to use trailling edge to positiv sustentation and not the contrary in Mirage 3 for exemple (and Mirage 3 hasn't leading edge also).

    But Dassault fighter spirit is Delta.

    And when FBW were ready, it was passible to better used leading and trailling edge so as to reduce landing speed and agility.

    Mirage F1 wasn't of a easy handling for pilot (as Jaguar, as Starfighter...), when M2000 is even more flight envelopp secured than F18 or F16.

    And a last asset : Delta can carry internally more fuel and is more stronger than classical wings.
     
  13. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The two were primarly used as interceptor.
     
  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I suggest you read more on this topic. F-1 till date has carried more internal fuel than any of the Mirage series including M2K
     
  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    You are tryiing to convinced us that your LSA planform is the top, by using this exemple... It doesn't work.

    A F1 with FBW is.... a F16 or a pakistani JF17.
    M2000 has an instantaneus turn rate higher at all speed and altitude vs F16 (usefull in air combat). In medium or high altitude it outclass F16 in sustained or instantaneous turn.
    the sole F16 shot down by another plane was by a M2000 ....

    Now Rafale used the M2000 config but add canards to increase lift and agility (and new air intakes so as to comply with higher AoA). F16 even the lighter one (smaller block) is totally beaten at all regime.
     

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