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MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pakfa

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Jul 12, 2012.

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  1. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    MMPP Salyut has been working on non-metallic (composite) applications for fighter engines for some time now, as was revealed in a publication in 2009. They undertook detailed tests on composite fan-blades, stator motors, turbines, engine shroud and other components. Aside from the RCS reduction and higher performance ramifications, a weight saving target of 30% was set over the standard AL-31F.

    MMPP Salyut has also filed several patents including one a decade old for the strengthening of ceramic fan blades (possibly for stator blades), and the second relates to powder metallurgy for sealing high-temperature composites materials (in the turbine).
    Google Translate

    Google Translate

    The Russkies also possess the injection RTM composite fabrication technology used in Snecma's Leap 1B composite fan (and panel construction of F-22/35):
    Google Translate

    In short, Sukhoi decided against S-ducts for a good reason, as it's quite possible the 'Type 30's' compressor won't be composed of superalloys (though Salyut's Chief Designer Gennadi Skirov confirms it will have a 3-stage BLISK low-pressure compressor and a 6-stage hp comp.).



    courtesy: jo asakura from key pub
    thank u for the info mate


    very important news for pakfa ,if it turns out to real then we may see non metallic compressor face which means far less radar reflection than traditional metal compressors .So a wise move by
    russians by that they dont require any S shaped air intake for which they would have to place the
    engines close to each other like F22 & J20 in the rear fuselarge which if have happened would have made impossible to have another weapon bay in the rear fuselarge of pakfa


    see the pakfa air intake
    PAK-FA AIR INTAKE
    [​IMG]

    well one can see that pak fa air intake exposes about 1/3 rd of compressor face compare to Su 30 air intake ,but product 30( code name of pak-fa engine) if it is going to have really a non metallic compressor face then radar reflection would be reduced considerably as compare to a metallic compressors as metals reflect radar more than non metals


    & one more advantage would be it wont have to need radar blockers for it's engine as radar blocker
    affects the performance of the engine .
     
    4 people like this.
  2. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    PAK FA will be a bit lighter as well :wave:
     
  3. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    well that may be secondary importance ,but 1st important advantage would be it's stealth
     
  4. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    I wonder sometimes
    materials like carbon fiber are light and strong,
    and provide a element of stealth as well.

    so why is it that they are not use large quantity in modern fighters ?

    Very Expensive ??
     
  5. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    Is the "skin" of PAKFA going to be made of Carbon Fibres too like EFT?
     
  6. Anees

    Anees Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    Better keep it secret dear please .................. :drag:
     
  7. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    C-FCs are used on F-35 and our own LCA as well.

    Besides F-35 has a Fiber Mat layer to increase stealth.
     
  8. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    @DrSomnath999

    Buddy any info about the stealthy nozzles?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. MAFIAN GOD

    MAFIAN GOD Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    But the fan-blade is still quite visible.....I guess that will give away a bigger heat/Infrared signature.
    Whats the solution for that???
     
  10. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    I dont know, is it ??
     
  11. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    Here is an extract from a technical paper from Ufa State Aviation University (Уфа: УГАТУ) regarding the development of the next generation engine (by referring to the "fifth generation engine"- it is, by all accounts, referring to the PAK-FA stage 2 engine in all but name), dated 2008:

    QUOTE:
    So what they're talking about is developing a fan-blade composed of what they call 'Meta-Composites', in this case a magnesium matrix reinforced with boron-carbon fibre composite. This would replace the Titanium superalloy 1st stage of the compressor.



    Here is a Chinese technical paper on magnesium (Mg) alloys which it describes as possessing "special radar-absorption characteristics, low density and high rigidity…".
    Quote:
    So it appears to be a very high-tech and elegant solution, also involved in composite fan blade development are FGUP TsIAM and FGUP VIAM (ФГУП ЦИАМ & ФГУП ВИАМ), these are big on nanotech, so I guess the final composition will be very interesting indeed!

    COURTESY :JO ASAKURA
    THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE
     
  12. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    well not right now .Let them 1st complete project 30 engine then they would decide about 2d nozzles
     
  13. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    lolllz
    this is also a part of that solution as composites or non metallic components usually have lesser heat/infra red signature than metals
     
  14. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Re: MMPP Salyut is developing on non-metallic applications for fighter engines in pak

    A report from an engine technology exhibition some time late 2011 detailing FGUP TsIAM's work.

    http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/79/pics/pg04.pdf

    As regards PAK-FA, TsIAM is delegated work regarding:

    малоступенчатым высоконагруженным вентилятору и КВД с низкой массой;
    A fewer staged, high loading fan and a low mass, HP compressor;

    основной высокотемпературной камере сгорания;
    The main high-temperature combustion chamber;

    высокотемпературной одноступенчатой ТВД;
    High-temperature, single-staged HP turbine;

    легкой форсажной бесстабилизаторной камере сгорания;
    A lean-burn combustion chamber without a stabilizer

    цифровой САУ с полной ответственностью (FADEC).
    FADEC

    Also reported is work on a UAV (UCAV?) engine and conceptual design of the PAK-DA engine.

    Interesting pics:
    [​IMG]
    БЛИСК турбины из биметаллического сплава (page 5, top left)
    BLISK turbines made of a bi-metallic alloy


    [​IMG]
    Камера сгорания перспективного ТРДД (page 5, middle-RIGHT)
    Section of combustion chamber for a future engine


    [​IMG]
    Лопатка РК модернизированного КНД из полимерного композита (page 6, top left)
    Fan blade 'RK' for upgraded LP compressor made of polymer composites.


    [​IMG]
    Лопатки РК и НА перспективного КНД (page 7, top left)
    Fan blades 'RK' & 'NA' for a future LP compressor


    [​IMG]
    Рабочие лопатки турбины из композиционных материалов (page 7, bottom-left)
    Working fan-blades of a turbine made of composite materials.

    COURTESY: JO ASAKURA
    THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE


    A report from an engine technology exhibition some time late 2011 detailing FGUP TsIAM's work.

    http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/79/pics/pg04.pdf

    As regards PAK-FA, TsIAM is delegated work regarding:

    малоступенчатым высоконагруженным вентилятору и КВД с низкой массой;
    A fewer staged, high loading fan and a low mass, HP compressor;

    основной высокотемпературной камере сгорания;
    The main high-temperature combustion chamber;

    высокотемпературной одноступенчатой ТВД;
    High-temperature, single-staged HP turbine;

    легкой форсажной бесстабилизаторной камере сгорания;
    A lean-burn combustion chamber without a stabilizer

    цифровой САУ с полной ответственностью (FADEC).
    FADEC

    Also reported is work on a UAV (UCAV?) engine and conceptual design of the PAK-DA engine.

    Interesting pics:
    [​IMG]
    БЛИСК турбины из биметаллического сплава (page 5, top left)
    BLISK turbines made of a bi-metallic alloy


    [​IMG]
    Камера сгорания перспективного ТРДД (page 5, middle-RIGHT)
    Section of combustion chamber for a future engine


    [​IMG]
    Лопатка РК модернизированного КНД из полимерного композита (page 6, top left)
    Fan blade 'RK' for upgraded LP compressor made of polymer composites.


    [​IMG]
    Лопатки РК и НА перспективного КНД (page 7, top left)
    Fan blades 'RK' & 'NA' for a future LP compressor


    [​IMG]
    Рабочие лопатки турбины из композиционных материалов (page 7, bottom-left)
    Working fan-blades of a turbine made of composite materials.

    COURTESY: JO ASAKURA
    THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE
     
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