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Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by gowthamraj, Apr 15, 2010.

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Should India go for Dassault Rafale or not?

  1. Yes -Absolutely.

    67 vote(s)
    57.8%
  2. No - Better to invest that in our Aerospace Industry and opt for AMCA and Tejas Mk. I & II etc.

    49 vote(s)
    42.2%
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  1. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    If you mean an anti-ship missile, that'd be redundant with the Exocet. A planned upgrade will provide it with two-way datalink and ability to change its target destination during the flight, so that could make it useful against ships even if it's not its primary purpose.

    There is a ship-launched variant, the MDCN, which will be operated from FREMM frigates and Barracuda submarines.
     
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  2. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Press bloopers:
    http://idrw.org/rafale-deal-17-months-later-from-e12-bn-to-7-8-bn-with-more-benefits/
    Pretty sure they meant the SCALP here.

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ce-big-edge-over-pakistan-china/1/770647.html
    Pakistan's Mirages are the older Mirage III and Mirage V; they don't have any Mirage 2000.
    Other way around, Egypt was the first customer, followed by Qatar.
     
  3. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    So this 16 classified tech transfer is true?
     
  4. WegWeg

    WegWeg 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    No it isn't. In any case, the most important part is American.
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Just one anecdote to show how American is the SCALP. When the cooperation between the French and the English started, the latter have signed confidentiality agreements.

    During the Iraq war the Scalp and Storm Shadow have had impressive results so that the Americans wanted information on these missiles. The English gave them all the documentation and two Missiles! For English to give information to Americans is not disclose protected information!

    So the Americans have studied the missile and to be sure of they performances, they decided to fires them on a test field equipped for such measures. They designate a target from a test aircraft to the two missiles, because it is their normal procedure when using cruise missile, and planned to follow the trajectory of missiles with an F-16.

    But the missiles fly too low and the F-16 can not follow them. A missile reaches the target, but they did not find the other one. Until they develop the film of the speed camera which was responsible for filming the impact of the missile at the target. They realize then that the second missile went through the hole that the first did. :sarcastic:
     
  6. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    And which part is that? The cup holder?
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    yes, its very true.
     
  8. sam2012

    sam2012 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Congrats Rafale fans :devilwork:
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It's a win for all Indians, not just Rafale supporters or the IAF.
     
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  10. sam2012

    sam2012 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I meant on debate note on this forum

    Yes as you say congrats to India after long time , but win for india if kaveri succeed with offset
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The deal is:-
    3.2b for 36 Rafale, unit fly away cost becomes 95m/ac.
    1.8b for associated supplies
    1.7b for integrating India specific weapons.
    700m for weapons.
    350m for spares.
    (All figures in Euros)
    This means that any further Rafale thru MII will come atleast 10m cheap on unit fly away cost. The other costs are one time costs and will not be applied proportionally to any further purchase of Rafale.
    The deal as brokered by UPA was for about 22b for 126 aircraft of which 18 were supposed to come from France. The equivalent deal price for the renegotiated deal is now:-
    7.8b for first 36 Rafale
    90 Rafele @ 110m/ac average price after adjusting for escalation of 3.5%/annum for next seven years amounting to 9.9b.
    TOTAL FOR 126 AIRCRAFT 7.8+9.9=17.7B. A SAVING OF OVER 4.3B OVER WHAT WAS NEGOTIATED BY UPA. This saving is the amount of bribe which the Italian waitress was supposed to pocket. From this saved amount we can buy S-400. So basically we are getting Rafale and S-400 for the same price for which UPA had negotiated only Rafale.
    The benefits and savings if Kaveri gets going thru offsets will amount to over USD8b over 25 yr period. The benefits from other 15 techs out of total 16 contracted as part of offsets notwithstanding.
     
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  12. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    @vstol jockey
    I have a confirmation about a new campaign to be unleashed now by principally 3 major folks
    • USA government is going to push F16 for MII and they have a revised pitch for 90 jets and later more
    • Boeing is again pushing for off the shelf purchase of F18 SH. F18 ASH is not cleared by government for even discussion. So there goes the credibility of US defence partner talks even though Boeing previously said will try and offer ASH as well
    • Saab campaign will begin again with revised talks
    Sadly, some reporters have already started that there is no need of MII Rafale Jets inspite of excellent work finally put in by FirstPost folks (whom i did request to find out the truth of Rafale deal MII when i had a casual talk with one of the guys and thankfully he has been hitting the right places). Worse a political party is snooping and getting reporters to pop up and talk down this deal as well and do much more to ensure no MII happens. (you know whom better)

    I am worried that again there will be a campaign against France. And owing to a little reclusive nature as well as not getting into mud slinging, all this may turn out to be again a Anti PR campaign.

    Need the MII campaign information put soon to kill all these folks who are part of yellow journalism
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Let them fool themselves. The deal is already sealed for firm 180 aircraft of which upto 54 will come from France and rest will be thru MII. Also, India will not have to spend even a penny to set up the assemblyline. Fance will pay for it and make Rafale in India. We will buy from this assemblyline.
     
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  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Thanks Vstol. You posted the information which i said here and now we have a much better confirmation.
    upload_2016-9-23_11-40-34.png
    http://defence.pk/threads/dassault-...ussions-thread-2.230070/page-327#post-8688450

    Indeed its nice that you added much more to show case the real benefits.

    It would be awesome when folks come to know the real size of MII, i am already assured that many will fiant and will get a heart attack as well
     
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  15. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Excellent now thats the news i wanted newspapers to leak.. thats why i asked FP to go ahead and find out themselves.
    I hope they get this out and print ..
     
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