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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    About 1000 to 2000Km. LCA is a 300Km fighter.
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Not India specific, but some interesting infos:

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/supe...to-double-as-trump-gives-program-a-boost.html

    The $78 millon (flyaway) then would include:

    CFT's
    Single screen cockpit
    New data links (US specific)
    IRST (possibly pod mounted)


    Not included from the road map seems to be:

    GE414 EDE or EPE engines
    Stealthy weapon pod
    IR MAWS
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  3. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Are you serious ???? Is it April 1 in India ???
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I am sure of what I have written. Rafale-M app Alpha is 16* for deck ops. And they have just about 1.5* additional view angle for a 3.5* app. Check out from your naval aviators and what DA has replied to IN on this very specific question.
     
  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    AHA 1000 to 2000 KM, so you want to create the Area Denial of 500-1000 KM from the Indian coast. Pls specify the size of the Nose cone of both the Jaguar-M which is presently used as the Naval Strike platform, and the of the LCA MK2, and the range of the Onboard MMR for search and targeting the Naval threat. Add range of Cruise Missile KH ?? or in future Brahmos-Mini and the combat range of 300 Km (from base to target and return on internal fuel). Pls specify the Ferry range for CAP with Drop fuel tank. Comparatively even F-16 have 500 Km of combat range, so it too will fail in your requirement.
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Just to prove that it is May 15th in India,
    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/flight-test-dassault-rafale-rampant-rafale-334383/
    Engines are two Snecma M88-2E4s generating a combined 22,500lb (100kN) of thrust dry and 34,000lb in full afterburner. Time from idle to full afterburner is just 4s at any altitude. The aircraft has a fixed flight refuelling probe and its canards and elevons operate in conjunction to act as a fully variable airbrake, with both features intended to save weight. Maximum speed is M1.8/750kt (1,390km/h), service ceiling 55,000ft (16,800m), and typical approach speed at mid-weight (15t) and 16° AoA an indicated 125kt.
     
    zebra7 likes this.
  7. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Some Interesting info

    Even Rafale F3R cost around 85 Million in its flyaway cost. Add Weapon acquisition cost since most of our existing weapons are russian and french, replacement of Indian specific various equipments due to CISMOA and BECA non signatory, cost of infrastructure, support equipment such as US specific refueling tankers, airbase, shelter, training, Simulator, maintenance tools, equipment needed. Plus add the 24 X 7 monitoring and visit by US officials in Indian Bases.

    India have its own ODL-2 Operational Data Link, so what is the need for going for the US link 16.
    Super Hornet will need the US EMALs for the Carrier operation.
    Growler is not clear for the Indian Armed forces.
    Doubts that US will now allow, Indian technicians to program Onboard DRFM/Jammers and will be maintained and programmed by US technicians.
    Vulnerable to stoppage of weapon, spares and support during crisis.
    Zero technology transfer plus during midlife upgrade, the upgradation will only be done by the Boeing approved vendor, and HAL or any other Indian OEM is not in that list.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
    Ankit Kumar 001 likes this.
  8. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Interesting Points of LCA MK2 from the ADA anual report during 2016

    10.1 Ba ckground: LCA AF Mk2 was conceived as the performance of LCA AF Mk1 was found inadequate with GEF404-IN20 engine The scope of FSED Phase 3 as per project sanction is as follows:-

    Design, develop and build two aircraft with
    - New Engine
    - Necessary changes in the structure and systems to integrate the new engine
    - Weight reduction to improve performance
    - Unified EW Suite (UEWS)
    - Development of new DFCC, its test facilities and integration
    - Upgrade/modification/maintenance of test facilities

    10.2 Additional Scope:

    Extensive studies were carried out at ADA to make suitable changes in LCA AF Mk2 to address the maintainability issues observed in LCA AF Mk1, improve the systems like fuel, landing gear and brakes, electrical, armament etc. Also a number of new/upgraded systems have been incorporated to make the aircraft more contemporary. As a result, the scope for FSED Phase 3 increased substantially due to extensive changes incorporated to have an improved aircraft with improved performance in all aspects.

    Important new/ upgrades of systems are listed
    below:
    - Introduction of 500mm plug in fuselage
    - Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar
    - On Board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS)
    - New Cockpit with larger size smart displays
    - One Mission Management and Display Computer (MMDC) in place of two Open Architecture Computers
    - HMDS based on optical sensor
    - Smart HUD with improved Field of Vision
    - Higher power Jet Fuel Starter
    - Servo controlled Airbrake under the command of DFCC control
    - Pressurized Fuel System
    - Unified Pylon Interface Computer (UPIC) in place of individual Pylon Interface Boxes
    - Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT)
    - Indigenous Actuators
    - NVG compatible lighting

    Activities Carried out:

    Presently, the configuration of LCA AF Mk2 has been frozen with all the design improvements and Preliminary Design Review (PDR) has been carried out in June 2014 and detail design is in progress. GE-F414 engine was selected as the higher thrust engine for LCA AF Mk2 and a contract was signed with M/s GE, USA in September 2012. The CDR of alternate engine has been completed. Engine is undergoing final qualification and lifing evaluation tests.

    10.4 Milestones Achieved:
    Following milestones have been
    achieved:
    - Configuration freeze
    - Engine contract finalization
    - In-board and NMG freeze
    - PDR

    10.5 Progress of Design and Development
    Activities:

    10.5.1 Configuration & NMG:
    The configuration of LCA AF Mk2 has been frozen. The Numerical Master Geometry (NMG) has been revised based on recommendations of PDR Committee to improve performance. The changes in NMG have resulted in drag reduction and increase in fuel content by about 2 0Kg. These improvements are going to result in improved point and mission performance.

    10.5.2 Inboards & Layout: The inboards have been finalised addressing the accessibility and maintainability issues observed in LCA Mk1.
    - Layouts preparation is in progress.
    - The station wise mass distribution is under finalisation.

    10.5.3 Aerodynamics :

    A number of aerodynamics improvements have been carried out to reduce drag and improve performance:
    - Drag reduction studies have been completed. Canopy reshaping, outer cowl modification, actuator fairing extension and supersonic pylons
    have resulted in approx 20 counts (8%) drag reduction in supersonic regimes.
    - Wind Tunnel studies have been completed.
    - Aero loads computations have been completed.

    10.5.4 Airframe:
    - Three door AAID finalised.
    - BMI material developed for high temperature applications.
    - Composite pipelines developed for ECS.
    - Spine widened for providing accessibility and maintainability.
    - Pilot step provided for pilot's emergency egress.
    - SPS bay redesigned to improve maintainability.

    10.5.5 Engine:
    - Aircraft engine bay ventilation scheme has been finalised.
    - Engine-Airframe Interface Control Diagram (ICD) has been prepared.
    - Aircraft Qualification Tests have been completed.
    - ASMET (Aircraft Simulated Mission Endurance Tests) results are under discussion.
    - New JFS with higher torque GTSU-135 is under development.

    10.5.6 Mechanical Systems:
    - Layouts preparation and detail design is in progress.
    - Feasibility to increase wheel size for increasing the capacity of brake system are in progress.
    - Trials to offload one hydraulic system to reduce the load on JFS during starting are going on. This will help in cold weather high altitude operations.
    - Liquid Cooling System configurations, separate for AESA and UEWS have been finalised.
    - Studies to shift the Air to Air refueling probe to right are in progress to obviate probe coming in Field of View of Head Up Display (HUD).

    10.5.7 Integrated Flight Control System:
    - DFCC: CDR completed. Realization st of QT unit by 31 Dec 2016.
    - Indigenous Actuators: Primary Actuators QT completed, Iron Bird testing completed. Being evaluated on LCA Mk1. Secondary Actuators
    under development. Air worthy units will be available by December 2016.

    10.5.8 Avionics:
    - Avionics architecture has been finalised.
    - New cockpit with bigger size (6”x8”) displays has been designed.
    - Development of new LRUs is in progress.
    - Avionics will be ready by Dec 2018.
    - Configuration of Active Phased Array based Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) finalised.
    - The number of elements that can be incorporated with the existing geometry for the Antenna Array unit of AESA Radar has been finalised
    and performance parameters like range and Effective Radiated Power (ERP) computed.
    - Night Vi s ion Goggle (NVG) compatible lights for Navigation lights and Taxi / Landing Lights are being developed.
    - Engineering models have been developed. Performance is being evaluated.
    - Conformal antenna developed for V/UHF.

    10.5.12 Interdisciplinary Studies: Following
    studies are in progress to bring out
    improvements in design:
    - LCA AF Mk2 cockpit assessment for new anthropometric data received from IAF is in progress.
    - Thermal mapping studies of aircraft are in progress.
    - New installation scheme in Avionics Bay for better accessibility /maintainability is under finalisation.
    - Rationalisation of drop tanks is in progress to reduce variety of drop tanks.
    - Electrical modeling of LCA AF Mk2 to study indirect effect of lightning is in progress at IISc, Bangalore.
    - Studies to bring out necessary changes in LRUs to have Push-fit type connectors for quick removal/fitment of the same have been completed.
    - Weight reduction studies have been carried out and design improvements required to reduce weight have been identified.
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    IAF paid more than 90 million flyaway and the M costs more, add the costs for folding wings and you are well over 100 million each.
    Weapons will always be procured extra and since the Mig weapons can't be used on F18 or Rafale, it doesn't matter anyway. The US weapon pack has more variety and is more cost-effective, Rafale comes with more capable weapons.
    Data link and IFF must be customized for both.

    At the end of the day suitability for the carriers and the possobility for catapults will be the main drivers.
     
    Skull and Bones likes this.
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Back to topic (naval MMRCAs) please!
     
  11. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]


    USMC F-35B fire its gun pod for the first time while flying

    The pod, which is strapped to the belly of the Navy and Marine Corps jets, can fire at 55 rounds per second and carries 220 rounds of 25 mm caliber.
     
  12. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    A certain "Ryan" is saying that there are roll issues for heavy configs desk landings for Rafale. I'm quite dubitative, he cites unknown 'navy contact'. Any hint about that?
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    IAF paid € 91 Millions for Rafale C and € 94 Millions for Rafale B but it's only because a financial extra was added to the flyaway cost.
    The flyaway cost of Rafale C is € 69 Millions, on that you add the Dassault margin 7% and you get a Flyaway price of € 74 Millions and then the financial extra because India didn't pay cash and want a coverture on monnay fluctuation, and you get € 91 Millions.
     
    zebra7 likes this.
  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Who is Ryan? We have discussed that many times here. Rafale does have such issues.
     
  15. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    BMD i guess. I'm genuinely interested and looking for the original posts.
     

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