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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Can some member please post for general benefit of the forum the last date of response for RFI.

    3 contenders

    Mig29K
    F-18SH
    Rafale-M

    Possible contender
    F-35
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    More balanced comparison:

    Rafale advantages
    - flight performance
    - A2A weaponry
    - EW
    - Cruise missiles (if it can take off with them via ski-jump)
    - industrial package (critical techs)
    - operational freedom (customisation)

    Rafale disadvantages
    - not suitable to IN carriers without folding wings
    - most expensive fighter in the tender
    - no IRST
    - less capable anti ship missile
    - limited SEAD capability
    - no access to catapult technology


    F18SH Block 3 advantages
    - folding wings, therefore suitable to all IN carriers
    - long range AESA
    - IRST (we don't know what kind yet)
    - CFTs (extended range, reduced drag and RCS, increased load capability)
    - advanced cockpit display
    - Harpoon (Slam-ER?)
    - HARM/ JSOW / JDAM varients
    - at least 15 to 20 million dollar cheaper per unit in flyaway condition
    - EMALS / catapult technology for IAC2
    - Boeing support for AMCA, as well as navalising

    F18SH Block 3 disadvantages
    - engine trust? (must prove take off capability)
    - EW (no MAWS or LWR)
    - possible operational restrictions
    - limited ToT of critical fighter systems
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
    PARIKRAMA, Agent_47 and sunstersun like this.
  4. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  5. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    OK +/- except :
    Rafale has a IRST : OSF. Newer one works in near IR.
    Rafale can carry conformal tanks. No one need it as it's already a long runner without.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Not that I'm aware of and the Mig has advantages too, starting with folding wings, over higher customisation, to TVC if needed, not to mention that it still will be the cheapest alternative.
    If the Russians would be smart, they can easily take away this deal, by giving India full freedom to integrate Kaveri engine and Uttam AESA. They don't have to bother about the capability of the systems, all they need to care, are at least 57 more Migs for their production lines. And we certainly couldn't resist such an offer, that plays to our pride.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No it doesn't have IRST, nor does it get it anywhere in time for the navy.
    And the CFTs are just mock ups for flight tests, not developed and doesn't have enough internal fuel capacity to replace external fuel tanks.
     
  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    What is OSF and OSF NG in this case?

    No, Conformal tanks were not mock up. And all Rafale produced are equipped to received conformal tanks.
    Each conformal tank can bring 1150 liters. In term of capacity & drag penalty, a conformal tank is better than a external 1200l tank.
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    OSF-IT has only the TV channel no IRST capability
    OSF-NG is only planned for 2023, so not relevant.

    The rest is wrong.
     
  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    OSF IT works in near IR.

    All Rafale produced so far are conformal tanks ready. Conformal tanks were tested many many years ago. A lot of pics exist.

    After all if you don't want to see or know the truth, its only your problem.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    =>

    (Translated)
    http://www.air-cosmos.com/reservoirs-conformes-sur-avions-de-combat-l-option-indispensable-20176
     
  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  13. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Some pointers as per discussion on Boeing offer

    As of now, the cost comparison shows difference in flyaway cost between Boeing and Dassault is in single digit percentage difference.

    Secondly, the offer is with limited weapon sets and most of the advanced weapon sets are shown as add on with additional cost

    Thirdly, the load carry under different mission sets is to be demonstrated but it seems both fighters on paper shows similar load outs for a STOBAR carrier but one is showing a lesser range (much heavier and bigger engines ones) due to less fuel carry.

    Fourthly,Indian custom requirements will be discussed separately and a appropriate cost will be negotiated where a full fledged integration needs to be done. All development or integrations which are partially developed or integrated and Indian requirements is an extension can be done at a nominal one time fee basis. Indian weapon integration is subject to Senate and POTUS clearance. But the same is shown as part of this package.

    Fifthly, Boeing has proposed the Enclosed Weapons Bay knowledge and technical expertise as part of AMCA plan and a co developed package which is an extension of ASH can be provided to IN for specific mission packs with additional cost.

    Lastly, All Boeing weapon systems are to be used for conventional warfare purposes only.
     
  14. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    TVC nozzle is not specifically meant for the dogfight. It helps the aircraft to quickly point its nose toward the target plus usage of TVC helps in increasing range since TVC helps in changing direction while cruising, instead of surface.
     
  15. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    And what about Rafale-M ??
     
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