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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Rafale can deliver Nukes, which is already discussed during IAF quest
     
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  2. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    "Yeah Baat Kuch Hajam Nahi Hui " (the reason why I don't like buying American weapons system "we pay and keys with UNCLE"), rest is all Okay.

    This alone can be a deal breaker. And Rafale could come in picture because of this point alone. Better to go for Rafales.

    If we have nuclear capabilities and our survivability is dependent on it in war and even then if we can't use it what good that weapons system is?
     
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  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    No restrictions and a big issue on this...

    203X IN will have assets to deliver the Strategic payloads and thus wants its carrier wing to fully capable with no restrictions on integrating such payloads and delivery systems.
     
  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That's what is required from a naval fighter.

    Take a case, what if an entire Chinese carrier group comes towards bay of Bengal due to Indo Pak escalation here a single nuke can take out the entire carrier battle group ensuring safety of our shores, even a misfire of nuke can send a message to Chinese not to mess, if we don't want Chinese escalation. But our hands will be tied. No way boss, we pay we use as we want.
     
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  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    So does that means the 36 Rafale F3R G-G deal was to fulfill the Strategic shortfall, and actual Rafale Deal is seperate and negotiation is taking place. The was the excuse that the IAF was giving, when they asked the govt for the second hand Mirage 2K that India is loosing the striking capability over enemy airspace, which become the base of the MMRCA, and in that disguissed the Strategic requirement, which could not be declared openly.
     
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  6. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    You don't send a message to a nuclear power, since that's the beginning of the end!

    And the naval part of the nuclear triad, are subs carrying nuclear capable missiles. Sending a carrier including a battle group into position, just to send a fighter, is like telegraphing the enemy.
    That's why you hide your SSBNs or SSGNs, to pose an unpredictable threat and with Brahmos and Nirbhay coming, the sub launched nuclear missile arsenal is increasing.
     
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  7. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Answer to the CBG is the nuclear submarine plus long range maritime Aircraft armed with Cruise missile, and not the Carrier borne aircraft. BTW the nuclear assets are not with the IN.
     
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  8. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    It will soon be or it already is with INS Arihant Patrolling. Also. read @PARIKRAMA post it clearly hints Navy's role.
     
  9. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Arihant is SSBN, not a SSK or SSN.
     
  10. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Kaveri is a decade away at least and INS Vishal is around the corner and IN is not going to risk Kaveri.

    They already had a bad experience with Mig29K engines which resulted in INS Vikramaditya being kept close to the shore at all times.


    IN won't care for such things they are a professional force.


    Dassault won't let the factor of folding wings stop Rafale securing this contract.
    They would redesign and offer it.
     
  11. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That's exactly the point. INS Arihant is SSBN and its job is to deliver nuclear assets and so it proves Nukes are with IN (though maybe under nuke command).
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    I would prefer a CATOBAR Vishal over an Kaveri engine too, but that doesn't take away the fact that we are driven by pride (see the NLCA or Kaveri discussions) and that the Mig is one of the few applications a 90kN Kaveri engine, would actually be useful. The problems with Russian stuff are the reason why we want to replace as much as possible (avionics, EW, weapons), replacing radar and engine would bring it to another level and doesn't take away from the capability of the Mig itself.

    Nobody said they wouldn't do it, but without it, Rafale M is useless and the costs will further add to the high unit cost.

    Just from suitability and cost pov of the available versions, the ranking would be:

    1. Mig 29K
    2. F18 SH Block 3
    3. Rafale M
     
  13. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Question is how it is an answer to the CBG as stated by you, suppose Chinese CBG stationed 1 thousands of km away is threatening Indian maritime business sea route. Will you surfaced Arihant to disclosed its location, to threatened Chinese or the threat of Indian SSK and SSN chasing, and laying trap to Chinese CBG would send the correct message.
     
  14. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Not only on forums, but also in the media by officials of the industry, who blame the forces for not buying more Indian stuff, regardless of the development status. That's pride talking. And even the government is at least publicly promoting Make in India as a tool to get self sufficient, when they actually only buy more foreign stuff.
    Because it's the only one that doesn't fit to the lofts of any Indian carrier, without credible re-designs. That's the basic requirement for any fighter, to be operated on our carriers.

    As shown some pages ago, the SH Block 3 is offered by Boeing for around 78 million dollar flyaway. Rafale for IAF was 90 million + flyaway + cost for the naval varient + costs for folding wings
    That's speculation at this point, neither is the missile anywhere near to be ready, nor do we know if any of the fighters can take off with the size and weight limitations it poses.
     

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