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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes it is the best...for Pakistan! For countries that can afford better, it's not, but we certainly shouldn't underestimate it, that's another topic however.
     
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  2. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    As you said thats pride talking. Pride can keep talking. Govt would never call SAAB and Lockheed for the Mig replacement if there was a silver lining in the Tejas project. Modi promotes Make in India like he has discovered fire or invented the wheel. Entire govt is so aggressive in promoting Make in India but when its not possible they will also be practical and in case of defence matters they will be pragmatic.

    Hoping for Kaveri for the Navy as of 2017 is not being realistic and will not be a factor. Uttam AESA is functional or not is also not clear. And in case Uttam AESA is ready and IN wants to deploy it why would Dassault say no?

    It won't be a herculean task for Dassault to design a Rafale with folding wings. It won't be such a major issue.

    Rafale for IAF offer vs Boeing's SH3 general offer.

    When Boeing makes an IAF specific offer it will include all the subsystems costing and the costs will escalate.

    But as you posted a few pages back the deadline was on 24th May.

    Did Boeing make any offer?

    Dassault and Mikoyan have made offers.
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Probably, because apart from the economic loss of giving away radar and possibly weapon sales, it would require credible changes in the whole Rafale system. Rafale don't need to give away that much for sales, for the Mig it would be another customisation.
    Structural changes, wiring, internal fuel tank possibly..., doable but not a piece of cake like the integration of HMS or Litenting LDP.

    Donno what you mean, IAF has no relation here.
     
  4. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There are two elements to deterrence: the threat of action (first strike), and the threat of retaliation (second strike).

    Telegraphing the enemy is precisely what the threat of action is. It says "hey, remember we have nukes, we're ready to go that far". The aim, hopefully, isn't to actually use them, it's to force the enemy to turn back. For this to work, you want your strategic force to be visible. A nuclear-armed CBG fits that role.

    The threat of retaliation is where the submarines enter the picture. Or don't, since they hide. It says, "hey, remember, if you attack us, we'll still have nukes to ruin your day even if you have ruined ours". There you want the strategic force to be invisible, or otherwise protected from enemy first strike attempts.
     
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  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    There is a difference between triad completion and wasted/modes of triad delivery systems.

    As of date 32 Mirages and 16 Jags are used for air delivery of N-Strategic Payloads.. all from land bases and all under indirect command structure of IAF and directly under SFC.

    Going forward this structure is evolved further with assets in carrier as well at all times. The simple reason is the survivability part of the game in case of a war and multiplying the probability of delivery mission incursions being a surprise factor for the enemies.

    This is the only reason IN will get its own shore based fighters as well as carrier based fighters and it's air wing will only have 4.5 and beyond generation planes. It's a small and lethal AF which is planned which can undertake variety of missions without any limitations imposed by OEM or the OEM country.

    @zebra7 can't confirm with official documents but a small number pilots selected are not just from Regular Mirage squadrons.. they are from the "special" DPSA squadrons. I understand a portion every batch will be moved till we get desired birds in that specific role. In return present assets will be freed up.
     
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  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That makes the CGB to a sign, but then again, IN would simply use a cruise missile from a sub, then sending a fighter after you already alerted the enemy and give him ease for interception.
    As long as IN doesn't have stealth fighters or UCAVs, the nuclear delivery, would always be done by subs, simply for the fact of less detectability and lower chances of interception.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Exactly, but all of that is not given when you have to use a whole CBG before the delivery. Only subs with missiles fulfill your criterias and IN certainly will not have shore based assets, that dublicates IAF assets in the same area.
    So nuclear delivery for naval fighters, at least of 4th gen fighters is not a factor.
     
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  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And so France is completely stupid to have nuclear weapons on its aircraft carrier, as well as the US navy for that matter.
     
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  9. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Can you confirm nuclear weapon on carrier.
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yer wrong there. Diverting nuclear assets to the sea is a critical move towards completing our triad, this includes submarines and surface ships, and most definitely aircraft as well.

    Can you guarantee missiles of this class are nuclear tipped or not?
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No,....under normal circumstances!

    https://fas.org/blogs/security/2009/08/degaulle/
     
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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's your opinion, I never said that. I am only showing, that just like French and US navies, the first choice of nuclear strikes is with sub launched missiles, for treatment mentioned advantages.
    Not to mention that NATO navies have totally different operational profiles than IN, which is mainly local.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's what I said, just that you IN doesn't need it on their carrier fighters, when you have far more useful platforms.
     
  14. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    here you go ASMP which is on service from 80s and now replaced by ASMPA . But sir, our declared strategic delivery missiles are BM, and cruise missiles would always be declared for tactical usage, since declaring it would lower our nuclear threshold, with 2 of our neighbour who are known unfriendly with us, and one unpredictable and unstable. However, there must be some strategic deal regarding nuclear delivery options using french bird in the past, and should be with the rafale too, which will remain undeclared.
     
  15. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes but Pakistan is also local.
     

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