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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    For western navy it surely isn't, since a good carrier fighter need to have good range and endurance, besides offensive capabilities to make it useful in NATO operations.
    IN however is operationally limited to sea control around India. That means the fighters are only required to have short to medium range and mainly air defence and anti ship capabilities. The Mig offers both and is a clear upgrade compared to the Sea Harrier earlier.
    The only reason that we need to consider more capable fighters, is the worst case scenario, of intercepting a superior Chinese carrier. That's when more range/ endurance and better weapons and techs would come handy, at least in theory.
     
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    By the time we purchase the F-35B and put it in use, international orders would have scaled up, the production rate would be at its peak and costs would be at its lowest, it would actually compete with Rafale.

    The fact is IN has estimated $15B for MRCBF. The Koreans purchased 40 F-35A at $7B. So I have estimated the same cost for 24 F-35B. This can easily cover for the same modifications the Israelis have made and PBL. Fair, isn't it?

    Then you can consider the Mig-29Ks will not cost more than $5B. During MMRCA, they offered the Mig-35 at $45M while Rafale's unit cost was $85M. And this was before Russia's ruble collapse. So the ruble price is now at half the cost. But I've still assumed the cost will be $45M*2*57 = $5B for the total contract.

    The modified Mistral will not cost more than $1B.

    So the total expenditure is $13B. But it will actually be cheaper than that, enough to buy a second Mistral and still save billions.
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    A superior Chinese carrier is a decade away from being operational and at least half a decade to a decade after that before it can be deployed to the Indian Ocean for war. Even these Rafale F3Rs and F4s will be obsolete by then. We are talking about post 2035 after all.
     
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  4. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    There's a rumour that Israelis are ordering F-35 B variants after giving a thumbs up for their F-35's.

    Would be interesting to see Israel export their modifications.

    Thing is, logistics would be crippling with only 24 planes, even with the F-35 being the most numerous plane on the market.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The specialty of the F-35B is its ability to operate from austere bases. That's something worth spending money on. It was designed for forward operating bases. You combine those with some Ospreys, the benefits are too many to list.

    Its only drawback is range, similar to the Mig-29s drawback, but that's why we need stealth drop tanks and CFTs.

    Whatever the Israelis make, we will be interested. The vanilla version of the F-35 without any ECM is a joke. No matter what they say, you can't fly without full spectrum EW against the S-400. There is a reason why the Turks selected the S-400 over all other western SAMs even after they know everything there is to know about the F-35.

    Not to mention, they want CFTs.

    The numbers can increase to 48 over time, with 2 or 3 Mistrals. The IN can easily tap into the F-35's global supply chain.
     
  6. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/an-asq-239-f-35-ew-countermeasure-system

    https://www.f35.com/about/capabilities/electronicwarfare
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    surya kiran and Sahil ecclstone like this.
  8. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The F-35 EW suite is easily the most classified and sensitive information. Boeing is on the level of Russia for hating/propaganda against the F-35. That picture is basically a sales pitch.

    There is no way anyone can reasonably know what the ECM capability of the F-35 is.

    some of the few indicators.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suter_(computer_program)

    http://www.popsci.com/f-35-cyberjoint-cyberstrike-cyberfighter-gets-cyberpod-cyberwarfare

    http://breakingdefense.com/2016/07/bae-systems-inches-out-in-public-on-electronic-warfare/

    F-35 was designed with ease of upgrading in mind. Stealth as can be, best computing power and high power generation. I think the F-35 will be a more capable EW/SEAD platform than Growlers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
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  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    You forget that Boeing was part of the competition for the F-35, with their X-32. They have intimate knowledge about the F-35.

    The F-35 has only X band stealth from the radar. It does not have full spectrum ECM. Your article also says the same thing:

    Advanced electronic warfare capabilities enable the F-35 to locate and track enemy forces, jam radio frequencies and disrupt attacks with unparalleled precision. All three variants of the F-35 carry active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars with sophisticated electronic attack capabilities, including false targets, network attack, advanced jamming and algorithm-packed data streams. This system allows the F-35 to reach well-defended targets and suppress enemy radars that threaten the F-35. In addition, the ASQ-239 system provides fully integrated radar warning, targeting support, and self-protection, to detect and defeat surface and airborne threats.

    What this means is the ECM comes from the radar and self protection basically means chaff and flares that is under control of the ASQ-239.

    This was the reason why the Israelis asked for their own EW systems on the F-35. If the ASQ-239 was built with ECM, then there would have been no need for the Israeli ECM pod.

    Full spectrum EW for the F-35 will come with NGJ, which is basically a pod. But it's far into the future since it has not been budgeted yet.

    As for whether it will be better than the Growler or not, it is yet to be seen. It has the potential to be better, but without a budget for its development, it's not going to happen.
     
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  10. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    2nd link says that they're adding an ECM pod to F-35's.

    The F-35 will receive numerous numerous upgrades, there is a budget for it with the scope of the plane.

    Also, boeing might have intimate knowledge but they don't present it that way.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It's referring to something else other than ECM.
     
  12. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    DHzV2KTU0AAlQDX.jpg
    PLAN wishlist.
     
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  13. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  14. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  15. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Replies to an earlier navy RFI for Multi Role Carrier Borne Fighter (MRCBF) aircraft, which predates the publication of Chapter 07, have already been submitted. The RFI for this is widely expected to be brought under Chapter 07, as well, with all the associated requirements for Make in India, the model for which has been created in the two RFIs issued by the navy.

    It is now up to the IAF and the army to follow suit and match the standards set by the navy.

    https://www.stratpost.com/navy-leads-way-strategic-partnerships/

    @Sancho @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy
     
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