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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    F18s compatible with Indian naval carrier fleet: Boeing
    Published August 28, 2017 SOURCE: IANS

    [​IMG]
    Global defence equipment major Boeing on Monday said that its F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter aircraft is compatible with India’s current naval carrier platforms and that they can be produced in the country under the government’s “Make in India” initiative. “Analytical and (computer) simulations have shown that the F/A-18 is compatible with the current carrier fleet of the Indian Navy. The results of the test have been submitted in response to a global RFI issued by the Navy,” said Pratyush Kumar, President, Boeing India. Presently, the Indian Navy’s aircraft carriers’ utilise “ski-jump ramps” for fighter aircraft to take-off. Kumar spoke to IANS on the sidelines of a briefing over F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter aircraft which was held here. Boeing has filed its response to a global RFI (request for information) floated by the Indian Navy earlier this year. Boeing is considered to be one of the major contenders for the supply of 57 carrier-borne fighter aircraft required by the Indian Navy. Company executives told IANS that the F/A-18 Super Hornet was designed for carrier operations and is “the world’s pre-eminent carrier capable aircraft” with a defined US Navy flight plan to outpace threats into the 2040s. The Indian Navy initiated the bid and issued a “RFI for Procurement of Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter for The Indian Navy” on January 31, 2017. According to Kumar, apart from the advanced technologies, the aircraft comes with an overall life cycle cost which is more reasonable than other contenders in the bid. “The overall life cycle cost is far lower than others,” Kumar said. “The Super Hornet has the lowest cost per flight hour which is even lower than Lockheed Martin’s F-16.” Dan Gillian, Vice President of F/A-18 and EA Programmes, Boeing, observed that a platform like the “Super Hornet” under the “Make in India” programme will help the Indian industry to position itself for the manufacture of “Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft” (AMCA). “Boeing can provide the capability needed for the Indian Navy to build its next generation carrier air wing. It can also provide the industrial base right here behind that capability,” Gillian said. “When we look across the globe at quality, capability and cost – India is an obvious partner. We have been building F/A-18 aerostructures and assemblies in India because it makes good business sense to do so.” “The Super Hornet represents 21st century capability for the Indian defence forces, and industrial capability where we have evaluated 400 suppliers for the fighter campaign and have done a deep assessment on the capability of over 160 Indian suppliers,” Kumar said. “We have quadrupled our sourcing from India and currently source $1 billion from India.” Gillian mentioned that the Super Hornet is ahead of its competitors because of its affordability, survivability, built-in stealth, smarter weapons and being combat proven. Currently, the Indian Navy has two aircraft carriers — INS Vikramaditya and INS Viraat — which are based in the Indian Ocean Region. It operates the Russian built MIG 29-K fighter aircraft from these platforms.

    http://idrw.org/f18s-compatible-indian-naval-carrier-fleet-boeing/#more-145866 .
     
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  2. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    F-18 is by far the most potent fighter of US Air force + Navy. Apart from f-35 and f-22. Instead of going in for the F-16 block 70, it would be better to go in for the f-18 Advanced Super hornet. As FA-18 Advanced Super Hornet would serve our interest better than F-16.
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    F-18SH has same problems as Rafale-M from STOBAR carriers, it needs more engine power and also has problems of limited hard pylons which restrict its payload due to asymmetry.
     
  4. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    F/A-18 #Super #Hornet compatible with #Indian #naval #carrier fleet: says#Boeing
    "Analytical and (computer) simulations have shown that the F/A-18 is compatible with the current carrier fleet of the Indian Navy. The results of the test have been submitted in response to a global RFI issued by the Navy," said Pratyush Kumar, President, Boeing India.
    According to Kumar, apart from the advanced technologies, the aircraft comes with an overall life cycle cost which is more reasonable than other contenders in the bid.
    "The overall life cycle cost is far lower than others," Kumar said. "The Super Hornet has the lowest cost per flight hour which is even lower than Lockheed Martin's F-16."
    Dan Gillian, Vice President of F/A-18 and EA Programmes, Boeing, observed that a platform like the "Super Hornet" under the "Make in India" programme will help the Indian industry to position itself for the manufacture of "Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft" (#AMCA).

    [​IMG]
    https://www.facebook.com/TPFscopes/posts/1568287296562517
     
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  5. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Can we really afford two different carrier borne fighters in our fleet with separate maintenance costs?
     
  6. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    A Chinese carrier deployed in the IOR in a war environment with India is a dead Chinese carrier.
     
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  7. NOODLER

    NOODLER FULL MEMBER

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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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  8. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    http://defensenews-alert.blogspot.fr/2017/08/indian-navy-carrier-jet-war-hots-up.html

    Indian Navy Carrier Jet War Hots Up, Boeing Focuses Fire

    Defense Alert indian defense, LIVEFIST

    [​IMG]

    Indian Navy’s multirole carrier borne fighter (MRCBF) contest just got a little hotter with Boeing today making it a point to amplify and detail the F/A-18E/F Block III Super Hornet’s ‘full compatibility’ with India’s current and future aircraft carriers. The company asserted today that the aircraft requires ‘no modifications’ to operate ‘with meaningful weapons loadouts’ from the ski-jump of the INS Vikramaditya, Vikrant-class and follow on aircraft carriers, adding a dimension of intrigue and intensity to a contest that is widely being seen as a direct dogfight with the Dassault Rafale.

    Now, here’s how the state of play adds up as Livefist sees it:

    • Boeing has dismissed reports that the F/A-18 is too big for the hangar elevators on the INS Vikramaditya and the under-construction Vikrant class aircraft carrier. The company confirmed today that the Block III Super Hornet requires no modifications for full operations on either of these carriers. Discussions are currently ongoing with the Indian Navy.
    • The emphasis on ski-jump operations compatibility — a capability that Boeing’s rival Dassault also claims on the Rafale — only amplifies the distance from an Indian Navy decision on whether its new class of aircraft carrier (IAC-2) will employ CATOBAR (steam or electro-magnetic) or a ski jump like the Vikramaditya and Vikrant.
    • If both the Super Hornet and Rafale both claim full operations capability from a ski-jump carrier, any technical toss-up would have to be between on weapons payload, cost per flight hour and range. Data on payload and range capabilities of either aircraft in ski jump operations remains unavailable (or unreleased). Boeing claims, however, that it has the lowest cost per flight hour of ‘any frontline fighter’.
    • Does the emphasis on ski-jump compatibility indicate a recognition that the Indian Navy could potentially simply exercise the option to purchase more MiG-29K fighters going forward? That doesn’t seem likely, given (a) the MRCBF contest is specifically borne from the Indian Navy’s need for a higher performance fighter, and (b) the Indian Navy contest will necessarily have synergies with the Indian Air Force’s future requirements.
    • Boeing says it is looking forward to putting into action what it has done in detailed simulations since at least 2008. The last time anything close to this capability happened was when a legacy F-18 Hornet took off from a ski-jump in the eighties.
    • Boeing sees recent reports of the IAF’s interest in doubling its order for Rafales to 72 aircraft as ‘positive’. Why? That’s answered in the video below with Boeing India chief Pratyush Kumar, the man driving the company’s continued performance in the Indian market, the latest win being the Indian Army’s imminent contract for six AH-64E Apache helicopters as part of options on the original IAF deal for 22.
     
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  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Point a is a non-issue. The Russians will bring in their latest technologies that's under the new Mig-35 program. It may or may not be as good as Rafale's, but ultimately it's the requirements that will play the main part. I mean, if both Rafale and Mig-29 qualify on technical grounds, then Mig-29 will get the L-1 tag for sure, while Rafale with T-1 can win only if the cost differential is 10%. Same rules for SH also. With the merger of IPR under UAC, Mig will be able to access Sukhoi's technologies, which means Mig can offer FGFA technologies. What this means is it is extremely likely that the cost of the aircraft will be the deciding factor, not technical specs.

    Point b is irrelevant. The navy in fact wants to be independent from the IAF. They will not want to buy aircraft where the IAF will be the primary decision maker. Both forces have very different environments to operate in after all. IN's potential squadron requirements are so high that they will be creating a competing air force, so they have no real need for commonality. They ultimately want to operate 4 to 6 carriers. That's like 100+ jets for each, effectively a new air force. Even in the past they have never operated the same aircraft the IAF operated, so that won't be changing anytime soon. Any commonality will be coincidental not deliberate, like the Mig-29s. That's why even the IAF's and IN's helicopter programs are separate. Basically, IN will not buy Rafale simply because IAF operates it.
     
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  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which shows how much confusion there is about the SPM, because it is not a replacement for older defence procurement models and not diverted from the DPP 2016, but another addition!
    The naval fighter tender, so far is not advertised by the MoD under the SPM, probably because the number of fighters are too small to create a licence production. Only the single engine fighter tender of the IAF, the sub and NUH tenders of IN and FICV of IA, are meant to be under the SPM so far.
    IN is also not the first, but behind the IAF in sending out an RFI, since the SE RFI was sent out last year. The only difference is, that the navy waited for the SPM model to be fully implemented and official. But their haste now is understandable, given the delays the government created by creating the DPP2016 and the SPM.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That was the plan a along, we are just moving from NLCA / Mig29K to Mig29K/ X.

    I still say that the best solution would be, diverting all Migs to IAF and fill the gaps, while IN makes a larger order for a single fighter on all carriers. Win win for IAF and IN!
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    They have good arguments on their side:

    - US is the only source to get catapult technology

    - The US political advantages, play a much bigger role for the current GoI

    - the F18SH is the only fighter, that fits all current, under development and even future carriers, without modifications

    - Boeing can offer a lot of industrial advantages to India and is the single largest source of FDI, through all the offsets they re-invested so far, with a track record of implementing tech transfer and production in India!

    - The F18SH is cheaper to procure and to operate than the Rafale.

    The downsides are, the low flight performance, the less capable EW, the less capable weapon pack and no share of critical techs of the fighter, which however can be justified with other things, as we see in the IAF Rafale deal as well.
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It seems you are confused:
    Only next month and not last year....
    http://indiandefence.com/threads/f1...-and-possibilities.56222/page-234#post-590263
    And my comments
    http://indiandefence.com/threads/f1...-and-possibilities.56222/page-234#post-590276
     
  14. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I want to reply on some of the matter
    MiG-35 program will benefit MiG-26K., but when operating off the carrier the dynamics are different, The material used has to withstand the salty moisture of operation at Sea, on other hand land based planes are not exposed to the same environment, so Russians have to learn more about the material also as its not really helping in carrier borne planes.

    India was primarily buying from Russia, and perhaps only few planes operated from carrier and land, F-4, Tomcat, A-7, F/A-18 are few of the examples. On other hand the Russians had a different concept for carrier than the American one. The Americans looked at carrier as centre of the force and which was supplemented by support ships, on other hand, the Russian carrier was mainly VTOL ship but it was heavily armed with Surface to surface, air defence etc.. Thus Russian doctrine could allow carrier and say 2 support destroyers to work independently, but the American focused on carrier group where the Carrier was supported by accompanying flotilla.
    This was result of lesson of WW2 when Carriers were destroyed by submarines and the two different blocks reacted in two different ways. The Americans who built new carriers prefered to use more traditional jet aircraft and hence developed Catapult system to launch planes, where as the British which used their old carriers prefered to built carriers that were not complicated to use. and hence prefered to develop planes like Harrier V/STOL jets which allowed for short take off and could land without the need of arresting technology and thus allowing for smaller and hence cheaper carriers.

    Back to the topic, MiGs big weakness are the material and the engines. MiG-29 does not carry heavy warload, but then how often are the planes going to be fully armed? How often do carrier planes take off fully armed and do they land fully armed? I am very sure that Rafale M armed with say 9.5 tons as it can, takes off and lands with 9.5 tons war load.

    I do not think that Navy would mind having similar plane to air force, but they would prefer to have a plane tailor made to their requirements MiG-29K is tailor made to their requirements. And its true, as you summarise that IN will not buy a plane because of commonality

     
  15. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    IAF would not want IN leftovers , hahaha

     

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