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Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Bro, Rafale-C is good, but the Rafale-M is not an impressive aircraft.

    The MTOW is reported to be only 21.5T. Its load carrying capacity is only 1T more than Mig-29K. And this is from a catapult launch. From Stobar, in Indian conditions, it could be lesser.

    Let's not forget how badly the aircraft will be affected once the wings are folded. A lot of that performance advantage will simply disappear.

    Another major drawback is the lack of a 2 seater naval Rafale.

    I see the F-35B as a much higher grade contender. It already has excellent MTOW owing to its TVC take off. With a ramp, it could do even better. It can carry 6.5T in payload apart from a full 6T of fuel. Plus it has an internal bay and a stealth design. Money is a different issue.

    @vstol jockey @halloweene @Picdelamirand-oil
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    So during wartime, it can do 24.5T?
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    at least that is what @Picdelamirand-oil claimed. But from STOBAR, its restricted to below 22 tons.
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    So ultimately there is very little difference between Rafale M and Mig-29K in load carrying capacity, it carries only 1T more.

    How much range do you think the Rafale M provides with 2 1250L tanks?
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Rafale-M is a superior design compared to Mig-29K with capabilities far exceeding those of Mig-29k but in terms of range and weapon load,both are nearly equal from STOBAR. Mig-29K has more fuel efficient engines compared to Rafale and nearly same fuel capacity but Rafale-M is more aerodynamically refined.
    2x1250L tanks in my opinion shudgive about 45 minutes more flying time to Rafale so about 360Nm range and 180NM combat radius.
     
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  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    [​IMG]
    This configuration is 22.2 t and was catapulted for the first time on CDG the 21/06/2007.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yeah. As far as I know, the buddy refueling version lifts 22.2T. The fully weaponized Rafale is restricted to below 21.5T.
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Anything specific where the Rafale is superior at?

    So that's not a lot of range if you are carrying 2 Brahmos and 2 1250L tanks. About 150Nm more range than if the Mig-29K was carrying 2 Brahmos and 1 centerline tank.

    I don't know why we have to pay 170M for each Rafale with infrastructure while we can get very similar capability at less than $50M.
     
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  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Used from a ground base or a USN carrier (with longer and mmore powerfull catapult than the medium Charles de Gaulle), sure it can take off at more than 22T.

    Folding wings? removable wing tip? is it really usefull? not so sure.

    Do we know exactly the perf of F35B ? even LM don't.
    6.5T of payload and 6T of fuel = Sci Fi. Now it's in the wet dream of LM drawing board.
     
  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The only problem is to land on carrier, and specially in asymetric config. Not to take off.
     
  11. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Partially because Rafale can sustain more sorties/day than the Mig. No?
     
  12. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    F-35B demonstrated combat radius is 505 NMI.

    However 6.5 t payload might be a bit aggressive on internal stores for the F-35B.

    it's closer to 5tons.

    roughly 11k-15k total tons with fuel and weapons.

    However once you add in pylons it's way greater than 5 tons.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Ground base is irrelevant. And our carriers don't have catapults.

    If we have to use it on both carriers.

    I think sortie rates will depend on the carrier crew rather the aircraft itself.

    Not to mention, we are more interested in mid air refueling than more sortie rates. If we increase the range of the aircraft to 8000Km with refueling, that's more than enough. With 6 missiles, 2 or 3 supersonic tanks, we can run CAP missions for 8 hours or so.
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Internal stores can't carry more than 1.5T on the F-35B. That's 2 500Kg bombs and 2 missiles.
    F-35A and C can do about 2.5T, 2 1000Kg bombs and 2 missiles.

    So the F-35's internal payload is about 7.5T with full fuel and weapons.

    I was referring to the F-35B's total payload, both internal and external. It's about 6.5T with full internal fuel.
     
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  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    AFAIK, It takes Rafale-M nearly 4 hrs to be converted to Buddy Refueling role. I might be wrong. But IN wants a time of less than one hour for conversion to buddy refueling role.
     

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