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Myanmar in advanced negotiations to licence-build JF-17 fighter

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Agent_47, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Couldn't see what Rainman posted earlier :(

    There is no post having a sensible debate with any of them ... Heck, my simple post ie a reply to khafee idiot post on highlighting that the IAF reject the advance hawk ... Telling him it was a dumb source and not the IAF official stand - this got flagged and censored
     
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  2. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    1984? May be. But we should learn to accept that forum as it has become, not as we would wish it to be. Let us make this forum better.

    Over there, the JF-17, CPEC and a few other topics are the proverbial holy cows (no pun intended or implied). We should be content in letting them make all they claims they wish, and be ready with the proper responses when those claims inevitably meet reality.

    After all, we know that PAF has conducted over 1300 operations in it own territory with a perfect 100% success rate with zero collateral damage, where all other nations conducting such operations have failed. It is hard to argue with perfection.

    The JF-17B will fly this year, and JF-17 will be flying in Nigerian and Burmese skies soon. Let them be happy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  3. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Yah I only noticed something was up because rainman protested it in same thread.

    Maybe rainman can screenshot it to here.
     
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  4. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    One of my posts out of the 4 has now been approved by mods :p

    3 still remain hidden!

    Fun game!
     
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  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    When their logic started failing, they call for help from mod (not in post rather from message)
     
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  6. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    @Nilgiri few more question

    1. What is the status of their FOC and IOC or they have some other standard?
    2. Which is been sold to Myanmar FC-1 or JF-17 ?
    3. Did they have integrated all their weapons advertised successfully and source.
    4. Since Pakistani are dreaming of 50-50 shares with the sale, what percentage they are expecting, since most of the subcomponents are of Chinese origin, spares and weapons package are also gonna come from the China ?
    5. When could we expect their Block 4 with Stealth, which would make them superior since FGFA which may fight with block 4 would be ready only till 2030?
     
  7. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    They will just block my post and I will get another negative rating and worse yet, those Pakistanis that try to answer my post will get their posts deleted too. JF-17 is a blasphemous topic like Vcheng said.

    You are better off querying a think tank like @MilSpec to post these questions there (he may already know some of the answers)....at least it may stay up that way.
     
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  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    FOC and IOC are internal standards for an air force, many forces around the world do not stick to this method. Many forces around the world rely on something different, called launch containment, where with a new product being launched, an ELC test method is carried out, for every configuration, certain pre determined tests are established and evaluated in those terms. If acceptable to the end user the system is deployed.

    Btw, the IAF IOC and FOC standards were established because of dillidalying of ADA of testing and establishing the user requirements.


    IMO, both are in essence the same aircraft, the JF17 has a certain percentage of work and revenue share, details are not very clear. Most likely the system will be exported in CKD to PAC Kamra and assembled there like every other JF17 system.


    Mostly yes, but when a manufacturer states certain capabilities , it's up to them to demonstrate it. Be aware some the capabilities of the aircraft do not necessarily need to be demonstrated, like For example when India bought the SU 30MKI, neither the R27ER/ET nor the RVV SD had any field trials before the systems were bought. When R77 RVV SD was tested it was tested off a Mig29, and later of a SU25 in Russia.


    There is no need to belittle their conglomerate. If anything we should learn a bit from them where they did a Joint venture from the get go, whereas India has paid through it's nose for all of it's license builds and was extremele late to get on the joint venture concept. We could have gotten the JV for SU30MKI post Soviet Collapse, but we did not, In the same time frame, China bought the entire rights for the SU27 design. Post MKI, most of Rosoboron exports have been based on the MKI, event he SU30SM is based on the MKI, and we did not get a penny for that. An Indian design concept was sold by the russians all over and we got nothing out of it, except the russians laughing at our expense, and even now Russians are trying the same tactics with PAKFA, which infuriates me to the extent that I wouldn't mind IAF walking away from the deal altogether.. PAC Kamra will get the entire cost of assembly and and some part of the design. CAC will get the part of manufacturing of avionics, airframe. Weapons package most likely will be separate from china and will be paid as per the choice of the customer.

    There has been no such claim, that Block 4 would be stealth, atleast that I know of.

    Please don't take this negatively, but I sense some disdain in your posts w.r.t JF17. Look objectively at just the aircraft, it's a splendid design, and is beautifully simplistic. Don't dislike the system because of it's obnoxious cheerleaders.

    @VCheng do you think that covers it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
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  9. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    That covers it pretty well. While the JF-17 has many issues, always remember that any aircraft can be defined as a set of compromises flying in close proximity. For the PAF, it represents an excellent choice, given its needs and constraints.
     
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  10. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    i was reading how users here were saying the chinese just ship the frame to pakistan for them to assemble and viola.
    i raised my point and well read on from here i guess.............
    https://defence.pk/threads/jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-7.427560/page-84#post-9171216
     
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  11. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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  12. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I have seen multiple videos in which horus sent my way, from my estimate PAC Kamra is assemblying the system inhouse from CKD Kits, and incrementally gaining capabilities as it time passes. From all of the videos I have seen of PAC Kamra, they have a very well maintained Final Assm Hangar, multiple CMM/LMM booths, Harness and avionics lines, small bed VMC's but I have not seen any Large bed AL profilers. Without large bed pro filers and cold drawing, hyd stampings, you are not going to build fuselage or the wings. CAC's wrapped shipments of JF17 fusealge is also a dead giveaway btw.

    I have seen that image in pdf but cannot find it right now, anyone else here can point you to it.
     
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  13. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Just adding , it is nice that @Blue Marlin got a pleasant replies (where the rest of us will get the boot), - though the reply he got said only 2 initially ship in 2007 (and the rest is built in house)

    as @MilSpec said - This article posted by @AbRaj http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_3506978_1.html (Dt 20.04.209) mentions that in 2008 they are shipping those frames to
    Pakistan

    Can anyone answer to : For the JF17 who is doing the software integration ? or this is a plug and play:?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
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  14. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    im a good boy mind you and i knew who was gonna reply and i got them with more.
    from what i was told in regards to the frame they only import critical parts only make makes the rest. one user went there and saw the machines for him self who is credible. did you read throughout all of the posts including how the jf-17 was dismantled for transport, which explains the reason for a jf-17 frame next to a pakistani ll-78
     
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  15. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    no......... read hkr's post again
     

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