Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

NAL Saras dead, Is US2 aircraft an option ?

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by The Drdo Guy, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
  2. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
    Given the facts that Saras was required to be an 14 passenger, 6000kg max takeoff weight; US2 has maximum takeoff weight of 44700 kg and 20 passenger. IN wants 8 such aircrafts and IAF had signed an MOU for procurement of 15 Saras . These two aircrafts are very different from their specifications but given the fact that Saras is dead and India-Japan coproduction deal with full TOT to produce these aircrafts in India which only Indian Navy needs 18 US2, the economic prospects of producing such aircraft in such small numbers(18 Navy+ 15 IAF which needed Saras) is not good. That is why it seems to me that these aircrafts are going to replace a large number of old aircrafts in IN& IAF inventory. Plus these can be used for operation in local transport. There is a very good export potential of this aircraft to the countries non hostile to US-Japan-India. @vstol jockey, @randomradio @Gessler
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  3. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    Saras and US-2 are entirely different aircraft.

    The future of US-2 has not yet been charted, and I doubt India will play a bit part.
     
  5. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
    Agreed that they are entirely differeny. How do you see if there is a make in india component involved with the deal. Do you think IN needs only 18 such aircrafts ? Yes this aircraft is very different from saras but once we get full TOT and start making them in India don't you think it is going to replace a number of old aircrafts. We can easily use them in civilian transport to inhospitable conditions.
     
  6. arulcharles

    arulcharles Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    137
    Country Flag:
    India
    There is much difference between Make in India and Made in India
    I don't see US2 is going to come under Make In India, its going to be just like rafale deal

    Both indigenization and Make In India are similar, In both we have to pay for infrastructure and also heavy price for technology
    Few months back people questioned possibility of manufacturing C295 aircraft in India locally, but 18 aircraft is very little compared with 50+

    Even If Japan agree for Make In India of US2, how much cost will it require for the deal
    and How much amount India willing to pay for modifying the aircraft to other needs as per your claim

    Right now I have two thoughts about exiting from Saras program
    1. Nal Saras is a good designed aircraft even though it takes 16 years, government funding in the program is very poor, It is absolutely great talent by Indian Scientist and Engineers to build a aircraft from scratches, If they had received funds in correct time now we could have seen it flying in Indian skies, still we should fund the project to develop technologies

    2. GoI must have other Ideas, since Civil aviation is blooming in India and many Indian carriers are need of civil aircraft, so that there is great chance for Airbus, Boeing or Sukhoi to start a local assembly line in few years. Saras need another 5 to 10 years to become fully operational capable. There could be a possibility of acquiring these types of aircraft from them or probably c295 for navy
     
  7. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
  8. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
  9. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
  10. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
    Here is what prasun k sengupta said regarding US2,



    The real ToT will take place with Shin Maywa. For, the good news is that the Govt of India has accepted my recommendation for the methodology of establishing a JV company (like Maruti-Suzuki) for not only licence-assembling the US-2i amphibian for the IN & ICGS, but also undertaking a large industrial co-production programme that will make this entire JV a financially viable effort. It all began late last year when the PMO asked the 3 armed services to draft their requests for amphibian aircraft. After this, it was realized that the number reqd was far too small to justify licenced-assembly & then the usual bureaucratic ‘jalebi-making’ efforts began, with the proposal going to the DIPP & getting stuck there. When I came to know of this tamaasha, my immediate suggestion was to increase the size of the cake, i.e. let the civil/military market for US-2i-type amphibians grow at a gradual pace over a decade. But in the meantime, let’s establish the JV with Shin Maywa (by initially creating a govt-owned company like Maruti Udyog) & entrusting this JV with the task of building in India the world-famous PAXWAY family of aero-bridges (see: PAXWAY-The Aircraft Passenger Boarding Bridge | ShinMaywa Industries, Ltd.
    sales.parking@shinmaywa.co.jp) that will not only find a huge market within India (for Tier-2/Tier-3 airports in the 50+ smart cities), but will also be exportable. This alone will justify the creation of a JV company with Shin Maywa, instead of relying entirely on the induction of US-2i amphibians. I’m happy to note that after Shin Maywa & the DIPP did the math, they found my suggestion to be the only viable solution on the table worth implementing ASAP, & this is what is now being done.

    December 12, 2015 at 6:49 AM

     
  11. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
  12. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    6,186
    Likes Received:
    903
    They both address different needs and different market segments

    Not comparable
     
  13. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    420
  14. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    420
    Rs. 300 cr is peanuts for an aeroplane development.

    This is the problem with Indian products. It is never clear to the public, what are the problems of a particular desi thing. Be it the Saras, LCH, Tejas, Arjun etc.. And when the shortcomings are made up, the end user comes up with another new list of shortcomings, and a product never gets inducted. This is the strategy of Indian govt. institutions to keep out Indian products. If foreign products never had any shortcomings then why r new improved models of different things being launched every day.
     
  15. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    469
    BABUDOM is the biggest hurdle. The officials in these government institutions are good for nothing. By the time they develop something it become obsolete leave alone the idea to develop something new. They can claim to bring heavnes to earth pulling them through an intangible rope and ask 10 years time to develop but after 10 years they have nothing. Poor work culture is also one of the reasons. 300 cr is peanuts but what they have been doing for 16 years? Have they developed something with those 300 crore ? Why they never asked government for money to develop Saras if they were just close to develop a cheap commercial plane? So, the DPSU's are to blame and no one else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

Share This Page