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NAL Saras

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Virajith, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Maybe this can replace ATR-72 aircrafts in mountainous areas for civilian use.There was also talk of using DO-228 for short flights,any updates?
     
  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    NAL starts taxi trials of improved Saras

    Saras, one of the first attempts at making small, short-haul planes in the country, is rolling on its wheels after eight years, warming up before it tests its wings again.

    A modified prototype of the 14-seater transport aircraft started making low-speed taxi trials in early August. Air Force pilots have completed five runs of around 45 minutes each and will next move on to high-speed taxi tests, according to Jitendra Jadhav, Director, National Aerospace Laboratories, under the Council for Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR).

    Dr. Jadhav said, “We plan to fly the aircraft in the first week of October after the high speed taxi trials are completed. We made more than 10 modifications since the accident. The performance of the plane’s systems after the modification will be evaluated during the flights.”

    About 25 flights are planned in the first set of the modified prototype, the PT1N, he recently told The Hindu. By the end of 2019, NAL plans to fly a production-standard version for air-worthiness certification.

    Except for minimum maintenance engine runs, the 14-seater aircraft has not taxied or flown since one aircraft version crashed near Bengaluru in 2009 killing all three crew members. In February this year, the Minister of Science & Technology — in whose purview NAL and other CSIR labs fall — said the government was intent on completing the plane’s development and making it flight worthy.

    The revival activities started with five ground-runs of its two Pratt & Whitney engines followed by the taxi trials. A few more LSTTs [low speed taxi trials] are due.

    The 10-odd modifications were made to make it more pilot-friendly, agile, or easy to control; and to enable it to fly higher. The final Saras is planned to be able to cover 1,600 km at a maximum speed of 425 kmph, have a service ceiling of 9-10 km and fly continuously for five hours.

    Dr. Jadhav outlined the roadmap: "After the trial flights, the design configuration of Saras is targeted to be frozen by March 2018 as production standard. By then we should have reduced the weight and drag issues. We would have made improvements in avionics, glass cockpit, environment control systems, cabin pressure control systems and a few changes in flight control systems. We then go in for funding [from the government] for two limited series production vehicles and a static specimen.

    "The current plan is that we start flying the LSPs by December 2019 for final certification," he said.

    When ready, Saras, initiated in 1999 as a civil light transport plane, will first get certified for military use. The Indian Air Force has indicated a need for 15 of them. A civil variant is to follow.

    Full-scale production is scheduled to be taken up in 2020 at the Kanpur facility of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd - where HAL produces its Dornier-228 transport aircraft.

    The project has used up around ₹ 500 crore. Dr. Jadhav said, "We need around ₹ 550-660 crore to produce two LSP versions. We will move the necessary papers after the first flight."


    http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-trials-of-improved-saras/article19647155.ece

    @Abingdonboy @vstol jockey @Sancho @Gessler @randomradio
     
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  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I do like the idea of a flying test bed - good possible replacement for the Avro (?)
     
  4. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Start by creating a 3 seater utility. Warna ghanta kuch hoga Saras ka.
     
  5. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Avro replacement is already known- C-295. Saras will find its own niche if it can be sucessfully developed HOWEVER I feel the negative image of the project will ultimately be too much to overcome and many non-goverment users will be put off.
     
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  6. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Part of me agrees with you and the other part say 'sure' - need to move forward and hope for success.

    But then my feelings don't count.

    A Proper report is needed for the feasibility and the need for such aircraft . If it is negative, please stop funding and concentrate on other projects (case and point IJT 36) - please forget about national pride and face saving !
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I just can't make the logic of burning 600 crores for a project which has no future.
     
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  8. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    NAL Saras design is similar to Embraer Phenom, maybe they can take help from them
    Embraer Phenom 100 ex pic_tcm87-3837.jpg
     
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  9. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    [​IMG]
    NAL/Mahindra C-NM5
     
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  10. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Re: Your comment above, I completely agree with the following:
    It takes time, money and error to build the knowledge and wisdom. We can spend that 600CR buying technologies but then we will always be behind. It is better to put that 600 or whatever into building the wisdom of having our own aerospace industry.

    Look at ISRO. I'm sure people would have made similar comments when they were flying their sounding rockets from Thumba. Our Aircraft capabilities are where ISRO was in the 50s. It is a slooow and painful growth and the only way is to keep trying till we get it.

    Just remember, once we've acquired the wisdom (provided we keep working on it - like ISRO is), we will grow organically and none can touch us. e.g. We picked up knowledge while building the Marut and then threw it away. I do hope (and pray) we don't do that again.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Saras is too small to replace the Avros, it was meant to replace Do 228, which now are replaced by Do 228 NG (build by HAL and TATA).
    Drdo also ordered Do 228 NG as a test bed, so there is basically no requirement left for this aircraft in our forces, until the 228 NG needs to be replaced.

    That leaves only the civilian market and then it gets even more difficult, when privat airlines have to consider to take an unproven Indian aircraft with a bad reputation, compared to all the counterparts on the market.

    Wasting more money is simply not worth it, unless the forces find a new need for it.
     
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  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    NALwud have done better to go for a TE jet instead of twin prop. That wud have got a better civilian market for this aircraft. What use will it be when compared to DO-228 which is more fuel efficient than this and also has better payload?
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The design is still not fixed and they continue to have design related issues, so on what basis are they proposing a serial production?

    The estimated specs caught my eyes too!
     
  14. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I can't comment on what the right configuration will be as I don't have the skills and so will bow to your perspective.

    However, as was mentioned some place else (don't have data but I'm sure the data is available if someone digs for it), the Indian 2nd tier market is projected to become a couple of B$ a year. If we have an aircraft that is suitable for the 2nd and 3rd tier cities then we could actually get civilian aircraft design capability off the ground. This is exactly how Embraer took off in Brazil. Unfortunately, we don't have anything equivalent.
     
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  15. Notsuperstitious

    Notsuperstitious 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The ATR seats upto 72 passengers, Saras 14. Not comparable.

    The Dornier is comparable and is used by armed forces, but not civilian operators in India.
     

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