Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Narendra Modi completes 10 years in office today

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by Karthic Sri, Oct 7, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. abirbec04

    abirbec04 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    402
    What you are talking about is separation of church and state. It is already out of politics and governance as far as India is concerned and more so in India than anywhere else. In the beacon of democracy United States, no one can imagine any president who is a non-christian even today, though they have separated church and state in 1776. In Europe similar situation. During the presidential campaign Obama was criticized for his islamic middle name and about 30 percent still believe he is a muslim and absolutely hate him. You have to be a straight (not gay/bi) family loving Christian with a wife as a kind of stereotype. India compared to this is miles ahead, a sikh is our PM, a lady our President, AK Anthony (a Christian) our defense minister and a muslim our Vice President.

    What more do you want?

    But what has this got to do with a term called "Ram Rajya - meaning the ideal state" which is found in a 5000 year old Indian epic.

    If you are hell bent on proving it to be communal without any logical reason, then I cannot help you. Secularism has got nothing to do with Ram Rajya.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    That concept is part of hindu religion and our culture is hugely influenced by hindu religion..now people today are of different religion and some are atheists too.. So everybody will not be comfortable accepting a concept name derived from hinduism..
    why don't we work towards a neutral name borrowing all good concepts from what ever culture or religion or ethics and best practices all around the world.
     
  3. abirbec04

    abirbec04 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    402
    What similar concepts are there in the Bible? Please give purely Indian references not Old Testament references like Nebuchadnezar or King Solomon who were in Babylon and Jerusalem.

    Anything in New Testament pertaining to India?

    As far as Mahabali is concerned, he is not the only one. In fact Ravana himself was stated to be the best of the brahmins and a just ruler of "Golden Lanka" or "Swarna Lanka", in Mahabharata, Duryodhana was seen as a just ruler and as far as Mahabharata goes, he went to heaven before Yudhistira and all the other Pandavas.

    But it does not take away the appeal of Ram-rajya being synonymous with "Ideal State".
     
  4. prototype

    prototype Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,050
    Likes Received:
    300
    my friend if u say u r just using the collocation Ram rajya only for the sake of an ideal state not on religious ground,then what stop people of kerala to call the state mahabali Rajya,what make u to oppose it,how the charm of ram rajya is lost,because ram is a god in hindu mythology and mahabali a demon,now the ideal state which u were talking for so long does not matter here,dont try to force it down the throats of people who r not ready to accept it,or about ur evidences that only ram rajya matter because it was describe in ramayana and the other's were not,so ramayana is the evidence of ideal state

    I dont want to bring solomon here as i had already made my point in another thread i suspect his authenticity as much as suspect about ram
     
  5. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    Indian culture doesn't necessarly mean started in physical boundarys of india..today we practice many borrowed concepts and that all become a part of indian culture..and tomorrow it will be part of our heritage.
    when christianity and islam and western culture came to india it become a part of indian culture.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  6. abirbec04

    abirbec04 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    402
    Who says I oppose the use of Mahabali rule term. I am absolutely for it if people in Kerala in colloquial terms view Mahabali as their ideal ruler then they are more than welcome to their view. They should continue saying it without any fear of backlash or prejudice. Similarly, I am allowed to say Ram Rajya as a purely colloquial expression for ideal state. It should be viewed with equal measure of respect as well. Anything Indian, I am always for it. But outside India, no I cannot have anything to do with it.

    Please check my earlier post - I have talked about other rulers apart from mahabali who have been at times said to be just as well. Ravana was the king of demons, please, and he was the best of the brahmins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  7. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    As a person you are free to have your ram rajya concepts..
    as a christian he is also entitled to have his ideal stateconcepts.. and a muslim too..when one embrace a religion he became a part of that culture too. Every thing is a complex mixture..we may not be able to seperate it..
    tamil, Keralaits all have different cultural and erical diversitys..
    all these concepts should be under a neutral name or else there will be clashes..
     
  8. abirbec04

    abirbec04 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    402
    Ok this has gone on for too long. Anyway you can believe whatever you want to believe but making a mountain out of a mole is not going to help. If we don't understand a language we usually say "Its all Greek to me", most people in the world do that irrespective of nationality religion etc. It is a colloquial term very much in use. Similarly "this is kaliyuga or when will we get a good government and India would be Ram Rajya" is also a very common colloquial term in India. This is an absolutely ridiculous argument going on for 3 pages.

    If you don't want to say Ram Rajya, don't say it but nobody would become less or more Indian by saying it or refusing to say it.

    Jai Hind.

    P.S. - I am an agnostic but I am firm believer of cultural preservation as well.
     
  9. DaRk KnIght

    DaRk KnIght Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    5,142
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    Ofcourse you can call it mahabali rule aur whatever Jesus rule or allah rule you like as per your wish.

    My point is simple: Ram Rajya has nothing to do with secularism. It is a simple concept of a welfare state with people having high standard of living.
     
  10. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    When we are in a complex society where every epic and story has more than One version..every charactor is hero for one and villan for other one, it's better to find common ground and neutral names.i am in process of being an atheist..or leaning towards it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  11. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    Now isn't it better we call it something unanimous in public domain..rather than calling it a name derived from hinduism or christianity or islam when it comes to india..i am happy even with out a name..i would work towards a true secular democratic govt with socialist and capitalist elements, equallity, and govt and political party which minimise religious symbolism as much as possible.
     
  12. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    I guess we have come too far from the topic..lol..totally far from it.. But i am happy that we discussed it with out making too much noise..mods please don't don't delete it..
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  13. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    257
    self delete
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  14. DaRk KnIght

    DaRk KnIght Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    5,142
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    We are not talking about public domain and again you are mixing secularism,socialist and capitalistic elements with the concept of Ram Rajya. Ram Rajya has nothing to do with these terms. I again repeat its an ideal situation where the government is totally devoted towards public welfare and people have high standard of living.

    I will call it Ram Rajya you call it Mahabali Rajya or Jesus Rajya or Allah Rajya whats the problem??

    BTW my reply was to show that having Ram Rajya doesnt mean Hinduism dominating others religion.

    It is just like saying since we are studying English therefore in India we have British Raj. Lame isn't it??
     
  15. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    71
    I have no problem as long as it's personal and not politicised..everybody is free to have their own concepts.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page