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Narendra Modi completes 10 years in office today

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by Karthic Sri, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. abirbec04

    abirbec04 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.

    In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief. In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.

    What has the above definition got to do with culture? The Indian govt. is more secular than the definition itself because it has kept all the power of reform of one religion namely the majority religion in its hands and left all others scott free to do whatever they please. In other words, Govt. of India is the absolute master of the Hindu faith but not any other faith. This is not secularism. This is an absurd version of securalism. It is in the constitution. Have a look at it.

    We should ask ourselves which culture as Indians do we lay claim to? Is it the Abrahamic culture of Middle east or the 10,000 year old heritage that our nation has bestowed upon us. If any Indian claims to be part of Indian culture, which culture are they exactly talking about? If you lay claim to the indigenous Indian culture then Ram, Laxman, Yudhistir, Budhha, Guru Nanak, Govind Singh, mahavira in the past to Akbar and present day MMS are all part of that culture. If you deny that culture then you cannot claim to be part of the Indian heritage. Indian heritage is all this and more and Ram is an integral part of it no matter how secular or atheistic is one person.

    So you have to ask yourself the question, whether for you, the Indian cultural history that you claim to be part of start 2000 years back in Bethlehem or 10,000 years back on the banks of river sindhu.

    It is a valid question. The answer may calm your own inner conflicts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
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  2. abirbec04

    abirbec04 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Tarun Vijay of surprise surprise Times of India wrote it best - "The thing that makes a society radiant with a civilization dating back to thousands of years takes a millennium to create. It presents a history of one people, one land. A history of ups and downs, of victors and the vanquished, but all those share one vision and one ancestry woven with different threads and colours. That's us, as Hindus, no matter what you or someone down in your family chose any stream of faith or another name of a god. How does it matter? Why should a change in faith reflect in the change of my ancestors and heritage? It's impossible by any stretch of imagination or social engineering. It's sinfully barbaric surgery if one enforces the deletion of the past with the change of faith."

    We all share the same heritage and history, just because someone chooses a different faith it doesn't mean alienation of the ancestors history.

    "Recognise the fact that it was the Hindu majority that opted for a republic that was not a Hindu state. It was a Hindu majority that ensured with no obligation equal rights to every Indian without considering what their faith or way of worship is. The Hindus happily chose non-Hindu heads of state, accepted a Christian to run the nation de facto without a murmur and put their destiny in the hands of those who belonged to a different stream of religion. Where on this planet would you find such large-heartedness and an unbelievable level of trust in human beings without caring which colour or faith they belong to? America? UK? Germany? China?

    That's the state of the state we call a secular republic."

    This state filled with an intense hatred for anything Hindu comprises of the instruments of information, entertainment, constitutional authority and workstations of profit. A very small example is of the encroachment clearance by the noble-hearted law enforcer "secular" authorities -- all parties and all shades of courageous leaders included.

    They raze a hundred, sometimes more, roadside Hindu temples and the ram setu. Fine sir, law's supremacy must be maintained. But never ever would they dare to touch the adjacent structure of a maulvi's weird imagination. A dargah, a place of Islamic worship, built right in the middle of the huge square, next to a military installation, inside an international airport, over a bridge, all are allowed because the state power recognizes the continuity of the invaders' legacy -- don't touch them. Only the "heathens and pagans and infidels" are to be taught law."
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  3. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    When abrahamic religions come here it came with that culture too..and existing hindus changed their faith from ram to other gods.with that change he retained some practices which he followed, denied some, and modified some other practices. It has became a new culture so abrahamic culture also is as much as part of indian.
    and indian culture also is diverse..In the north ram is hero while in south it's his opponent ravan.So while everything exists it's not necessary to accept or practice every thing..people modify the culture and practices and beliefs..so what ever originated here, what ever came here is as much as part of our culture now..so let people accept new cultural practices and quit old practices which he doesn't like or believe..
     
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  4. chachachoudhary

    chachachoudhary Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    My insistence on the term Ram Rajya over any other term is due to the fact that the way Ram ruled or rather governed his kingdom is almost unequalled and unparallel in this part of the world.

    Ram is also referred to as Maryada Puroshottam", literally meaning the
    perfect man (human), only because of his self-restraint and he being a
    man of virtues and morals Lord Rama throughout his life stuck to
    Dharma to perform any action despite the many hardships as a result of
    this he had to face.


    In the context of India, we do not find such equals as far as sacrifice
    for the sake of Dharma meaning "moral duty" and duty towards praja
    i.e. people of the state.

    Now, regarding the question of why "Ram", as he is "Hindu" and India
    being secular cannot base its ideals on any specific religion, should
    be the symbol of any ideal state?

    Indian secularism is not based on atheism, but on the principles of
    equal rights to all religions.

    Please remember, all big Hindu temples are governed by govt. appointed
    officials and trustees who have to, by law, declare that they have full
    faith in the "gods or deities" that are there in the temples that they
    will be managing affairs of.

    If we decide to stretch the ideas of secularism to include the life and
    teachings of persons or gods not born in India, it will give rise to a
    new set of problems and confrontations.

    For example, how will you relate teachings of Christianity to India?
    Does Christianity recognize all gods as equals? Does Islam Recognize?
    All gods as equals? I mean do Christianity and Islam recognize
    existence of other gods and religions. I think everybody can ponder
    over whatever answers they can think of.


    Now, in contrast consider the cases of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism,
    Sikhism. All different sects, paths, which in turn have numerous
    panths or sub-paths. Sikhism does not contradict Hinduism. Hinduism
    demands equal respect to Lord Buddha as Lord Vishnu. Jain literature
    is full of stories of gods and goddesses, which by a strict definition
    belong to Hinduism. Indian history is full of periods when an entire
    population of regions turned Buddhist from Hinduism and again turned to
    Hinduism without shedding a drop of blood. Same is true for conversions to/from Jainism, Sikhism and Hinduism. So, all these sects while preserving their unique set of rules and teachings only complimented each other.


    So, point here is for any cultural identity to evolve over a period of
    time, the ideals or gods of communities involved must not contradict
    each other, but rather should flow as parallel streams of faiths, at
    times even complimenting and enriching each other.

    It would be interesting to consider the case of Spain. I think we all
    know the case of Cathedral de Cordoba.

    Spain in its long and dynamic history saw many invasions. During the
    Islamic or Arabic invasion of Spain, this cathedral was built using
    parts and ruins of many Roman temples. This structure became the Great
    Mosque of Cordoba. Over a period of time, when Christians conquered
    Spain after "Reconquista", this mosque was turned again to the Roman
    Catholic Church. Reason for mentioning this fact here is today you will
    find many Muslims in Spain, but they identify themselves culturally
    to the history of Spain and not the history of Arab, from where the
    invaders came. It does not mean that these Muslims of Spain are not at
    liberty to be proud of their history. The Muslims in Spain on the
    other hand take more pride in detailing their contribution to the arts,
    craft, literature of Spain.

    Now, take another case of Christianity in China. Christianity in china
    faced many hostilities. Boxer movement of 1900 and anti-Christian
    movement of 1920s were the turning points in history of Chinese
    Christians. Christians in china soon realized that they will be
    relevant only when they merge with the culture and history of China and
    the mistake their forefathers made under colonial protection was
    responsible for their alienation. It was after Three-Self Patriotic
    Movement that Chinese Christians became real part of China.

    Now, take another example, a very relevant to the topic of discussion. When missionaries came to Africa, they no doubt transformed the lives of people belonging to different tribes, but in doing so they converted these tribals and uprooted them from their generations of faith and belief systems. After European powers divided the land of Africa among themselves, the artificial boundaries created by colonial rulers as they ruled and finally left Africa had the effect of bringing together many different ethnic people within a nation that did not reflect, nor have (in such a short period of time) the ability to accommodate or provide for, the cultural and ethnic diversity. As the conflict between tribes intensified, an undercurrent grew among the educated tribals of these tribes to return to their original belief system. Today, you will find many tribals belonging to Christianity practicing their age-old traditions and following their traditional rituals and customs because they realized that only the native belief system and culture can integrate them with the land their forefathers were once proud of and lived peacefully for generations.

    The most important point that I want to stress in the above discussion is irrespective of what religion or faith you belong to, your cultural identity and belief system should be in sync with and naturally align to the cultural identity and belief system of the land that you live in as only this cultural identity, evolved over several centuries, not only gives you your identity but also helps you integrate with the fellow communities of the land.
     
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  5. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    ^^ in india govt controls hindu temples i want this to be changed..hindus themselves can make body which can do it.
    and SECULARism is not based on atheism or any religionism..it's a freedom to choose which ever a person likes.there should not be any bias towards anything. Govt should stay away from maters of beliefs or lack of it.
    cultural practices also should be left for a persons choice..let him practice, refuse, modify a certain practice..nobody can blackmail him saying ' hey this was part of our tradition so you must accept it '' .
     
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  6. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    self delete.
     
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  7. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Self moderation. Deleted.
     
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  8. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    why is it so difficult to understand one simple thing.
    ram was born on this land. ram-rajya means a perfect ideal governance for a state.
    wht part of this is not understandable ?

    when ram was on this earth, there was no other religion present.
    yoga is also an hindu thing, are we going to ban yoga from schools just becoz if doesnt qualify our ego of being secular.
    i started a thread about martial arts yesterday, n each martial art belong to a particular religion n culture.
    are we going to discard all of them becoz it doesnt boost our ego of secularship..??
    its not good that people feel ashamed to glorify thier own past civilisation n culture.
     
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  9. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    we want an ideal state in our country. that ideal state is called ram-rajya.
     
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  10. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    no there is no choice when it comes to an ideal state.
    we want a state where everyone is treated equally under one same law. why do u need a choice for this. what other option can we bring for this..??
    whether u call it ram-rajya, or shamuck-rajya makes no difference. it has to be ideal.
     
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  11. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Self delete..
     
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  12. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    utter absurdity.
    we cannot rape anyone, there is no choice about it.
    we cant loot anyone, there is no choice about it.
    we cant kill anyone , there is no choice about it.

    we r not choosing between a icecream n a burger.
    we are talking about an ideal state. "IDEAL"

    vat choice we want from this..??

    unideal state ?
     
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  13. brain_dead

    brain_dead Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  14. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I was talking about cultural practices.
    and yes ideal.. state think came to an agreement yesterday. There is no choice when it comes to ideal state..but there is a choice when it is named after a religious entity..i already said i agree with the ideas and we came to an agreeing point didn't we.
     
  15. True_Indian

    True_Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What kind of an arguement is that..please delete it.
     
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