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Navy Model” to Save Indian Air force

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by sam2012, May 3, 2015.

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  1. sam2012

    sam2012 Captain FULL MEMBER

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  2. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Government of India is all set to review defence procurement procedure for the Indian armed forces. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar already has asked Armed forces to exercise financial prudence and the services should optimise all available resources.

    Government and Indian air force are working on a long-term integrated perspective plan which “ought to encompass 25 years which includes more Indigenisation and also select more private players to create Competitive enviroment in Indian Aerospace Business.

    Dubbed as ” Navy Model ” Which allowed Indian Navy succeed in Indigenisation of many weapons systems where Indian navy worked with Defence PSU’s not only as Customer but also as a Developer allowed India Navy use its smaller budget which resulted into better utilisation of resources to expand its fleet .

    Emulation of Navy Model will mean Indian air force needs to become less Import friendly force and more Indigenisation friendly. IAF will also need to be more involved with Defence manufacturers.

    Disclaimer : Articles published under ” MY TAKE ” are articles written by Guest Writers and Opinions expressed within this article are the personal opinions of the author. IDRW.ORG is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness, suitability, or validity of any information on this article. All information is provided on an as-is basis. The information, facts or opinions appearing in the article do not reflect the views of IDRW.ORG and IDRW.ORG does not assume any responsibility or liability for the same. article is for information purposes only and not intended to constitute professional advice .


    “Navy Model” to Save Indian Air force? | idrw.org
     
  3. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There are five or six competing shipyards for the Navy. There's only one HAL for the Air Force. If one shipyard messes badly, then they can lose the sweet cash cow of the next military project. If HAL messes up, they're safe because their only competition is foreign and they know that for any big procurement of foreign aircraft the government will force the foreign manufacturer to work with HAL.
    Scorpene Submarines - Updates & Discussions | Page 10 | Indian Defence Forum

    But whenever the IAF tries to foster some competition at home, by having the private sector develop some capability, they are told "no".
    Government may shelve Indian Air Force’s $2 billion Avro replacement project | Indian Defence Forum
     
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  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    IN designs its own ships based on its own force projection requirements and which are realistic. We do not make QRs for weapons from Chacha Choudhary comic books or data given by weapon dalals something which IAF and IA do. They don't even know, most of the times, what they want. We then chose the shipyard best suited to deliver the product on time and for the quality that we want. We make PSU shipyards compete for the order. You will be shocked to know that many advances in metallurgy by India have there origin in the efforts put in by IN working with IITs, DRDO and PSU steel producers.
    Last week IN made a statement that after Project 75i they will never import a submarine. Can IAF or IA make such a statement regarding aircraft and tanks/guns? making a submarine is as complicated as making a stealth aircraft.
     
  5. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    That's one of the reasons, why I really love the Navy

    Go Navy !!!!!!! :fans:
     
  6. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There are also few things,
    A) Naval assets are big, quantity is small but the order time is big, rather for example if you did order 5 destroyers, the time taken to make these destroyers is 5 years + and then you are not able to order any more. Where as for Army and air force the assets are smaller but order time is much faster.
    B) There are no "Corvette trainers" "Destroyer trainers" the training is on the job,
    C) Navy cannot make mistake on its asset, if there is mistake on puchase of an asset, they do not have any asset to cover it. but for Air force, they have similar assets handling similar jobs. For strike role, dont Jaguar and M2K handle the same deep strike ability? It was proven during Kargil that M2K cannot face the F-16 on its own and hence had to use MiG-29 for handling escorts (this was not expected at all from MRCA) further they found Jaguar cannot handle strike in Kargil. And guess Kargil in a way did make us realise the chink in IAF armour that they do not have a capable stirke aircraft that can provide reliable all round strike capability, nor M2K nor Jaguar.
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    IN does not produce bastards or urchins. We take care of each and every child (Ship/Sub) that we conceive or plan to have. We don't blame a shipyard for shortcomings in tech as they produce what we ask them to produce. take the case of LCA, it is nobody's child till date. It is an urchin looking for a prospective father.
    Children are never unwanted, its parents who are unwanted who disown their own children. IN does not do that. We plan and than conceive and openly accept them as our own even if they are born with defects.
     
  8. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Really? I guess the F-16 must have shot down a lot of Mirage 2000 then...

    General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon operational history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force
    This guy basically says the F-16 is responsible for Pakistan losing the Kargil War.

    Why was it the Mirage 2000, so incapable of fighting against the F-16, that were escorting the Jaguars during recce missions, and not the almighty undefeatable MiG-29?

    Indian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Okay, that one was before Kargil and against Sri-Lanka instead of Pakistan, but again, Mirage 2000 in escort role, not MiG-29. Huh.

    The reality is that the IAF had a small number of Mirage 2000 and they were the only strike planes they had capable of using precision weapons, so it was decided to use them mostly in strike configurations. Having half the Mirage squadron in air-to-air configuration to provide escort for the strike Mirage would have halved the precision strike payload, and the MiG-29 couldn't be used for precision strikes at all.

    Your reading of "Mirage 2000 couldn't do escort and needed MiG-29" is wrong. The actual factual truth was "MiG-29 couldn't do precision strike and needed Mirage 2000".
     
  9. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    you have hit the hammer on the head !!!!!!

    every delay gives more money to complete the SAME project..... so y not delay. in short u get paid to sleep over the project.

    now many forum members have started calling IAF as imported air force.
    have they even thought as to y IAF has to import every thing .... NO !

    y do not they give reason or even a thought as to y all has to be imported.

    ok..
    IAF needs 42 squadrons that is 700 to 900 a/cs

    can HAL give or replace or even repair these many in the time frame..... NO.
    have they been able to provide ANY a/c in time.... NO.

    Y

    the MOD delays in taking the decisions ..... & result is HAL time frame goes haywire.....result IAF will not receive any a/c... example the 1st tejas MK1 ..delay delivery. the time needed for say assembling 16 tejas a year needs Rs.1500 crores ,that also after 1 year of working assemble line(after all gigs etc r installed on the assemble floor & all components required for assemble orders & delivered)..... has MOD given this money 3 years back as to demand a full squadron today ....... NO.

    by the time HAL is able to absorb the TECH. (tot) it is already 10 years late. eg. jags.

    so IAF will ask for todays tech. say in radars or EW or missiles or engines or cockpit or reduced RCS etc..
    HAL starts working on all these demands only after the money is provided..... which in last 10 years it never happened.
     
  10. sam2012

    sam2012 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    The recent launch of INS Visakhapatnam is a landmark development in India’s aim to transform its navy from a buyer to a builder. From the arrival of INS Delhi two decades ago to INS Visakhapatnam now, there has been a steady focus on indigenisation, and rightly so. It is time that the levels of indigenisation are ramped up, especially considering that there has been a sea-change in geo-politics of the region around the subcontinent. No doubt, time, money, resources and technology are stumbling blocks in achieving optimal levels of indigenisation but these need to be necessarily overcome.
    In this context, it is indeed a matter of pride that the Directorate General Naval Design and the Defence Research and Development Organisation have gone all out to modernise the Indian Navy. Starting with the Delhi-class ships, the Organisation came out with the Shivalik-class followed by the stealth-featuring Visakhapatnam series. Complementing this are the giant strides in developing the indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant and the aircraft carrier at Kochi.
    While the Indian Navy in recent times has been beset with a string of accidents and deaths causing conster-nation among the forces and the general public, the launch of Visakhapatnam is an opportunity for the naval arm to redeem itself and show it is capable of turning things around. There are at least 40 indigenous ships and submarines under various stages of construction, for example. When the naval variant of the Light Combat Aircraft is commissioned, that will be another huge step forward in the march towards indigenisation.
    The policy makers need to be complimented as the development of the Indian Navy is not an exercise in luxury, it is rooted in necessity. Given that India’s coastline is a massive 7,615 km with its exclusive economic zone stretching across 2.02 million sq m, it is imperative that its navy reflect the challenges that this poses to the country’s security and defence preparedness. Add to this the newfound activity and the focus on the region by China and Pakistan, you have all the ingredients needed for a well-rounded Indian Navy.
    A positive spin-off of India’s move to indigenise its navy is the opportunity it opens up for the private sector. Already several Indian companies have forayed into defence production and the addition of a naval component can only be the beginning of good times ahead. With all governments, irrespective of which political party heading them, being aware of the need and importance of the Indian Navy and prepared to infuse funds to back up the vision, the country should see a powerful naval arm in the near future.

    Indian Navy makes right moves | idrw.org
     
    INDIAN NATIONALIST likes this.
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