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New rifle ready, but Army holds fire

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Agent_47, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The force is planning to float a global tender despite Ordnance Board developing gun in record time
    The Ordnance Factory Board has developed a new 7.62-mm assault rifle for the Army, which will begin trials of the weapon in June.

    But the Army remains unenthused about the gun and is going ahead with a global tender for procuring new rifles.

    “The trials of the new 7.62x51mm assault rifle were to happen in May but got delayed. The first trial will now happen in the first half of June at the Rifle Factory, Ishapore. Eight rifles have been prepared for the trials,” a senior OFB official told The Hindu. Work on the gun began on October 1, 2016 and was completed in a “record six months” as per the requirements of the Army, the official said.

    Long firing range

    [​IMG]

    The rifle weighs 4.5 kg and is fully automatic. It has two firing modes, single shot and automatic, and has a lethal firing range of 500 metres.

    “The function of a self-loading rifle (SLR) has been transferred to the new rifle,” the official said referring to the superior lethal effect of the SLRs used in the past.

    The rifle also has a picatinny rail, a standard bracket on the gun, both above and below, where various accessories such as night-vision devices and under-barrel grenade launchers can be mounted. Basic trials were conducted during the development.

    The trials this month will be before the Project Management Team comprising representatives of the Army’s Infantry Directorate, the Rifle Factory, the Director-General, Quality Assurance, and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

    “During the basic trials, the rifle fired 300 rounds non-stop,” the official said and added that two representatives from the Army’s Infantry Directorate were involved in the entire trial process.

    Once the rifle clears the PMT trials, it will be put through extensive field trials.

    The Army has an initial requirement of 1,85,000 guns and much more later.

    The OFB has so far supplied over 10 lakh INSAS (Indian National Small Arms System) rifles to the Army so far and the plan is to replace all of them.

    The indigenously built 5.56-calibre INSAS rifle was cleared for induction into the Army in 1999 and was fully inducted by 2004.

    Bid to replace INSAS

    The Army has been trying to replace the INSAS and had launched an ambitious global tender for interchangeable barrels capable of firing both 5.56-mm and 7.62-mm-calibre bullets.

    The tender for assault rifles with interchangeable barrels issued in December 2011 was cancelled in 2015 as none of the companies could meet the service quality specifications.

    The Army has now decided to go for 7.62-mm calibre, and fresh General Staff Quality Requirements (GSQR) have just been issued

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/new-rifle-ready-but-army-holds-fire/article18718727.ece

    @Gessler @Abingdonboy @Hellfire @MilSpec
     
  2. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Yeah go ahead, call the tender process for couple of years, and put all the guns in the stringent trial of hot weather, cold weather same as done with the Multi Calliber Riffle. Lage Raho.
     
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  3. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    US army recently issued tenders for 7.62 mm combat service rifle as the current 5.56 mm M4 Carbine cannot pierce modern enemy body armor plates which makes us wonder who is calling the shots in India. Here we have a rifle of 7.62 mm ready to use and IA does not want it.
     
  4. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    After a few lakh guns are inducted,Army will again issue tender for 7.62 mm
     
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  5. Fox

    Fox Supreme Overlord FULL MEMBER

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    Ya'll want to borrow this for a bit:what:? Seems like you could use it.

    [​IMG]

    Joking aside, floating a global tender is probably a procedural issue unless there is legitimate disinterest with the newly developed weapons. I know from working with American companies that for some items they are legally obligated to float a tender and take bids, even when they've already made up their mind on what they want. We Norwegians do that too. Officially we opened a tender for new submarines and France and Germany responded with the Scorpene and Type 212 respectively. However, behind closed doors Norway had been negotiating with Germany and the tender was floated as a formality. It was always going to chose the Type 212.

    Sometimes tenders are floated because there is a genuine interest in foreign alternatives, as might be the case with the INSAS replacement, or to cultivate ties with international defence partners for future procurement, development or tie-ups. In 2003 the Norwegian Army trialed the G36, which had been in service with Norwegian SOF since 2001.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The interest was real, but Norway was informed that a new rifle, the HK416, was in development and it chose to retain the G3 until the HK416 was made available. That was four years later in 2007 when the HK416 was formally selected as the primary arm of the Norwegian Armed Forces (the HK416 was first introduced in 2004, one year after Norway trialed the G36, but had early issues.). You may also see tenders floated as a kind of threat to domestic arms industries as a way to motivate them to make better products.

    It might not be the way we think tenders should be, or even that there should be one at all, but this isn't an uncommon practice either. I see these all the time working trans-nationally with our defence partners.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Personally, I do not want a 4.5 Kgs weapon to carry around. INSAS at almost 4.1 was a pain in High Altitudes to lug around. I need it to fire, not hit enemy with.

    I preferred the Vz 58 at 3 instead. You feel the weight of every bullet when you start climbing 40 and above degree gradients in rarified atmosphere at 10000 ft ASL!

    Add to it the Bullet proof plates in the harness and the patka .... whew!

    And of course, I am not adding the canteen, the personal back packs at 25 kgs minimum as also other 'essential' stuff like a few frags and knife, pistol.
     
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  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yeah, I won't mind. Lending?

    On topic, you are right about this being a legal requirement. Also, the Defence PSUs have been given the proverbial boot up their collective behinds. The IA has been given a freedom to choose a weapon which suits it, and Defence PSUs have been put on notice to prove their product superiority otherwise, the winner is likely to co-produce with a Private player.

    It is getting interesting.

    At 4.5 Kgs, am not going to carry this weight in mountain and high altitude warfare with fair share of rock climbing and mostly cliff chop assaults.

    Unlike some of our dear members here, who will never ever have to lug the load in cliff chop assaults, I am clear on my fundamentals. :)
     
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  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Picking the 7.62x51Nato over a modern round like 6.5 gren or 6.8spc, is absolutely myopic on IA's part. I really really hope some sense prevails.
     
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I am not complaining as long as the weapon remains below 3.5 kgs. Anything above, 3.5, like 4.5 being given here, is a liability for me.
     
  10. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The US qoutation was for 7.62 mm rifle and the weight was to be below 12 pounds. That will come to 5.44 kg. If US Marines can carry a gun of 5.44 kg IA definitely can carry 4.5 kg.
     
  11. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Re Chambered INSAS.

    Nagaland Police force has already tested it, and review is not good.

    No chance it will even be considered by Army.
     
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  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Personal experience here? :)

    Adding on:

    IA will go for the best weapon available in the world. Nothing to do with foreign maal or otherwise.

    If any foreign vendor is selected, the same will be under MII. So there is no question of outright purchase from outside.

    As for weight ---- I have given you the weight reference for a weapon which shall be used by Ghataks of the Infantry Units and the physical capability on prolonged and sustained operations in steep gradients interspersed with both rock climbing and ice craft is limited after sometime in such environments of rarified atmosphere. US Army does not operate in such environments on sustained basis.

    If these weapons like Amogh and INSAS mk 1C were so damn good, CAPFs would have been buying them.

    Heck, even the police forces are buying from outside!

    What a warped logic that army should buy from India!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Kya batain armchair experts ko? IA is not a foolish organisation. Look at how IN supported LCA-N and what it got them :)

    Similarly, INSAS was wholeheartedly supported by IA in run upto induction in 1997 (even with concerns on assurances of them being ironed out) and 20 years later, they are nothing other than an outstanding weapon under test conditions in a Firing Range.

    Just in the name of indigenisation, IA is expected to get screwed in a fire fight!!!
     
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  14. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Nagaland police????
    Kerala police already ordered....
     
  15. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    7.62x51 re chambered INSAS?
     
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