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Nirbhay Cruise Missile

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by Gessler, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Ghanta

    Ghanta 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Brahmos is quite costly right? Nirbhay was supposed to be the cheaper subsonic variant!!
     
  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Brahmos is too costly. You can buy 4-5 nirbhay for the cost of a single Brahmos. You don't need supersonic speed on every missile strike.
    We are already too depended on this russian missile. It is actually a shame not to develop a decent subsonic missile.
     
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  3. AmoghaVarsha

    AmoghaVarsha FULL MEMBER

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    750km range???When?
     
  4. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Irrelevant if it keeps failing the way it has been. Would make more sense to co-develop a cheaper Brahmos variant w/ Russia the same way we are already working on extended range versions.
     
  5. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    How does test failure make a project irrelevant? Requirement is still not fulfilled.

    There is no cheaper Brahmos, its just a fantasy. To make any thing cheaper to mass produce you need to make it from scratch with maximum inhouse content.

    Extended range modifications are very small hardware/software changes. Which will make it identical to P-700 from which it was derived. What Russians earned over the years with limited tech sharing and customization should be written in MIC playbooks:devilwork: . It was ok a decade ago but still being slave to them after all these technological advancements is a pity.
     
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  6. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    No I didn't say the project is irrelevant. I was saying that if this cruise missile keeps failing in test phase then the price argument is temporarily irrelevant because cheap or expensive, Brahmos is the only option.

    So if it's *that* important to develop a cheaper cruise missile, and it's a pressing need, India might be best served collaborating with the Russians on that since we've already worked on one cruise missile together. As it is, we are buying less and less Russian stuff and the Russians are getting angrier and angrier about that; so this would be one project where they are the only conceivable partner, and it would be something we could placate them with in exchange for missing out on other tenders and deals.

    But yes, I agree with the overall point that the ultimate goal of any country, or atleast an aspiring major power should be to become 100% or at least 90% self sufficient in defense production and that we've been suckling on the Russian teat for far too long; but then we could write entire libraries worth of books on how India has consistently made the wrong choices in matters of military equipment development & manufacture, and even defense overall.
     
  7. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Yeah Russia. Right
    They gonna give us everything like they gave us solid propellant tech of Bramhos or Barrel tech of T90 and reactive armour tech for tanks
    Also guidance tech for Invar
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    It is failing because it is in test phase!. Price is always relevant for a defence project. Do you have any idea how much a Brahmos costs ? Rs 4,300 cr for a single regiment (With 100 missiles) and guess how much we spend for Nirbhay development ? Rs 100 cr. Per missile cost is suppose to be below <10 cr. And you expect brahmos to replace nirbhay?

    Yes, it is that important to develop cruise missiles of our own not an imported or a partnership. Hope you get that.

    Russians getting angry is just *laughable* prospect because russian import decline is inevitable. Say, in a decade what are they going to sell to us ? We should be encouraging any self reliance prospect. You cannot keep importing indefinitely. Partners would understand that change accordingly.
     
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  9. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Sad to see a lot of posters hear favour appeasement of Russia at cost of our own interests
    Perhaps they don't know what most of "joint development" means
     
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  10. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Nirbhay is not mean to have only a GLCM variant. An anti-shipping variant is also planned with an X-band seeker for the end game.

    GLCMs and ship-launched land strike variants with greater range than 1500 km are also envisioned.

    These longer ranged variants are supposed to be powered by more powerful members of the MANIK small turbofan family.

    Avinash Chander's sudden removal & the months that DRDO went without a head, weren't the best things to have happened to Nirbhay.

    Via Saurav Jha
     
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  11. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I said a variant or another joint venture since we have already successfully built a cruise missile together. Never said it HAS to be a Brahmos replacing Nirbhayas.

    Again, you're not grasping my point, a big part of what I mentioned was Urgency. If it is urgent, you're more likely to find success collaborating with a country that has experience building this stuff and who you've already successfully collaborated with in the past. If you have all the time in the world to build it and it's not an urgent requirement, that's when you have the time to try and make your own thing from scratch without being an established maker of that product.

    As for your point on Russia, you let ties change gradually over a period of time. I am not telling India to somehow compromise its interests; it'd still get a cheap cruise missile out of the proposition, you're acting as if I'm saying India should damage its own interests to "appease" Russians, which isn't the case.

    It's good to maintain decent ties with the Russians, because India is a fencesitter, it's not completely in the US corner yet, and India isn't ready to completely go its own way either; so its good to have an influential friend. And no country in the world will offer India some of the advanced technology and collaboration opportunities that Russia has. So as laughable as you may find it, it's not exactly ridiculous to suggest such a joint venture. You have a project which is more likely to succeed than Nirbhaya with India getting its cheap cruise missiles, and the Russians stay placated a little longer. And in the end India gains further know how in the topic of cruise missiles, so it is better prepared to start its own 100% indigenous efforts as well.
     
  12. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You can be cynical if you want, but Russia has also given India more tech than any other country has or would.
     
  13. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Ever ondered why?????

    hint : look at eapons of our 3 forces
     
  14. grace

    grace IDF NewBie

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    BHUBANESWAR: With three failures and without clearance from the technical committee formed to recommend rectification measures, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is all set to conduct a fresh experimental trial of homegrown subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay on May 31.
    However, the move to put the missile into trial with faults in the system has left a section of scientists worried. While navigational and hardware problems still persist in the weapon system, glitches in Nirbhay flight control computer are yet to be rectified.

    So far, of the four tests of Nirbhay missile, three have met with failure. Though the missile covered a distance of nearly 1,000 km during its second trial on October 17, 2014 and was claimed as successful by the DRDO, it could not maintain low height as intended.
    Sources said an independent technical committee was formed after the failed fourth trial in December last year to identify faults in the missile sub-systems and suggest remedial measures.
    ''Even as the committee refused to give a go-ahead for the test, the top brass of DRDO is adamant on going for fresh trial. They are expecting a miracle to happen but with defects in the system, failure is a foregone conclusion,'' said a defence scientist on condition of anonymity.

    During Aero India 2017 in February, Director General of DRDO S Christopher had said the suggestions of the technical committee have been incorporated and the missile is ready for trial.
    Sources said Nirbhay cruise missile, which was powered by a turbofan engine earlier, will be tested using a turbojet engine this time.
    The first test flight conducted on March 12, 2013, was a failure as the missile fell down only after 20 minutes of flight.
    On October 16, 2015, the missile during its third test nose-dived into the sea after covering only 129 km in 11 minutes.

    Nirbhay's fourth trial on December 21, 2016 was aborted midway as the missile changed its course due to late deployment of wings.
    Before third and fourth trials, 'The Express' had raised doubts on the outcome of the tests as the missile had faults in the flight control and navigation software.
    Having a strike range of nearly 1,000 km, the two-stage missile is six metres long. With a diameter of 0.52 metres and wing span of 2.7 metres, Nirbhay weighs around 1,500 kg and can carry warhead of 200 kg.
    Designed by Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) and launched in 2004, the projected date of completion of Nirbhay was December 31 last. It was, however, extended till June, 2018 after a review.
    Christopher chose to ignore the queried about the faults in the missile system.


    http://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...acle-awaits-nirbhay-test-success-1608447.html


    is this a bloody joke why the hell are they testing the platform without rectifying the issues ,....? :angry:
     
  15. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Bloody joke is the newspaper ,same one which reported coup attempt in Delhi.

    How can our scientists test the same thing and expect different results.
     
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