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No Hindus will be left in Bangladesh after 30 years: researcher

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by Wolfpack, Nov 21, 2016.

?

SIndia should declare itself as Hindu nation?

Poll closed Dec 12, 2016.
  1. Yes,Since Bharat is the only Homeland of Hindus in the world.

    58.3%
  2. NO,Because we are Secular and we follow Gandhi and Nehru

    25.0%
  3. Why do Hindus have itch to be Secular?when no one around you is not.

    16.7%
  4. No Comment

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Islam has 55 Nations,Christianity has 110 nations,why should Hindus have one Hindu nation?

    25.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    It's irrelevant whether the Chinese people rise up or not (which is inevitable one day if China doesn't gradually move to democracy), their economic bubble (the one thing pushing them this far forward and leading to their aggressive behavior and covering up their myriad different problems until now) will burst in the near future.

    As for your support of one nation vs world approach, and quoting America as an example, I have personally witnessed how America's economy and global favorability/perception both took a massive hit by this approach, there is no sense in taking that route, believe me.

    Your next point about Christian and Muslim nations is irrelevant. Muslim nations are not something to copy, and Christian majority nations have by and large adopted Secular Democracy, where religion and state are seperate. They are not "Christian" countries, except in terms of demographics, by which marker India is also a "Hindu Country." You talk about India's neighborhood, do you want to become Pakistan or Bangladesh lmfao?

    Again, you simply don't understand the importance of perception and moral standing in the world. Strength is crucial, but if you are a strong tyrant, you will be hated and conspired against and the whole world will come together to make you fall, just like much of Asia will come together to make China fall. To be strong + perceived positively and in the overall morally superior position is a bulletproof position, and only India has the potential to reach such a stage, so don't toss away the opportunity.

    I have blown all your arguments for making a Hindu state out of the water, if you still haven't grasped the concept, it is not possible for me to force you to understand, because you have already made up your mind that you want a Hindu Rashtra, even though it grants absolutely no added benefits at all, other than impacting your perception as a secular democracy in the world. If you understand the concept of soft power, that's a very important and positive tool in India's favor.

    As for your arguments about refugees and pundits, that is honestly nonsense. India could have easily helped the pandits and solved that problem even as a secular democracy, the truth is it chose not to. The truth is that nobody cared about Pandits because they were a small group and weren't a votebank, and even the BJP so far has done little to help them, they only remember Pandits when it's politically convenient for them. You dont need a Hindu Rashtra to rehabilitate Pandits, you simply need courage and actual determination.
     
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  2. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    With a declared Hindu state,the Government will have to act upon to help and rehabilitate Kashmiri Hindus and Pandits. While in a Secular country,they were left to wind and rot in Refugee camps. I agree the cowardice of Hindus resulted in exodus,but the blame also lay on Government,which did nothing,nor even provide such families with weapons or ways to protect themselves,while the Pakistanis sent supply caches of AK47's and other weapons with Jihadis trained in warfare,How would you fight such force equipped with AK47's,with sticks and stones?

    It is not tolerance,this rosy picture is being painted by left liberals as some Kashmiriyat or Ganga Jamuna Tehzeeb etc. its all rubbish and Nonsense,these same people will not mention the names of Muslims when they riot and call them the other community or say two communities clashed,but anything defended by Hindus will have front page news with the names clearly mentioned and paint Muslims as some victims.

    Having Hinduism as a state religion,inculcates and raises kids to be proud of it and not something to be embarassed about,which is what every Left Liberal and Some Intellectuals try to paint Hindus as.This leads to lack of self esteem in Children from young age,who will shy away from talking openly about Hinduism or its practices and thus he will remain confused and become easy prey for conversion where Islam and Christianity do not shy away from such exhorting their values loudly in public.
    Why is this Hinduism shaming being done only for Hindus even though they are majority in this nation,while it is the other way around in Islamic countries,where minorities are shamed .

    The politicians take advantage of such Secularism and vote banks and thus Hindus become victims in their own lands.
    To stop that, first this Gandhian Nonsense has to stop,declaring a state religion,will make children know about the importance of Hinduism in the country and put doubts in mind of Minorities that they have to play fair otherwise....
    The minorties are ok with obeying laws in countries which project themselves strongly,while those countries which don't project themselves strongly,the minority muslims will seek to change the laws to favor them and impose Sharia law.

    A country which is strong and has the same race,language,color,culture will not implode,economically they might have problems for some time.
    Remember the Chinese are used to living under Imperial rule for 4000 years or more.they are used to that thing,it is in their DNA now.
     
  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    This Democracy is the Panacea for all ills is peddled by USA and other western nations,not many takers for it in China.Just because USA was in power for long time,it was able to spread it's ideas and forcefully enforce it on other countries,militarily,economically(sanctions) and other covert and overt methods. The Chinese are not stupid,they know what moves USA is making and they have a remedy for it ready.USA is on the decline on global stage. Saudi Arabia when it founds it Oil wealth,started spreading its ideas around the world with its influence.China on the rise will start spreading it's ideas around the world,with its power projection just like USA did previously.
    Any Nation which has the same race,language,culture,ethnicity is difficult to implode,Economically they might get into some trouble but nothing they cannot take care of no matter what the Doomsday predictions of China by Western countries make,it will stay and will be here for a long time.

    Does America care about what the world thinks about it?Americans are full of themselves and they exhibited during BUSH regime in "US VS Them" or the "Either you are against us or with us" They did not care about the world when they waged war in Afghanisthan or Iraq.It was the world which came around to support America eventually in the end.That is how strong nations work based on their own strengths not based on others perceptions or what others might think about you.

    The foundations of all Western Nations are based on Christianity not on Paganism or Secularism.You can call whatever you like about Western nations,but their foundations are Christian,they might fool newbies into thinking they are Secular,but not those who can look back into their history and see on what principles they were founded.

    Why do you think India will become a Pakistan or a Bangladesh?How is Abrahamic Religious concept applied to Hinduism concept and say that doing so and so will lead to the same conclusion?
    Both religions are different then how would you assume both will end up the same way? For a experiment and result to be reproduced again and again you need to have the same ingredients and go through the same steps of the experiment to get the same result. How can you mix different ingredients and expect the same result of that experiment?
    Apples and Oranges comparison here.

    First of all these is no other Hindu Homeland and country in this world.So how would you assume,India will become like Pakistan or Bangladesh? the parameters are totally different here,unless you think Islam and Hinduism are the same.
    Come up with some better logic, instead of trying to shame people into believing that India will end up as Pakistan or Bangladesh if we adopt state religion.

    Perception is based on strength projection, You would not venture near a Lion,not because the lion is worried about its perception,but you will roam near a deer,because it cannot project that Power as a Lion does.The same applies to the world and its perception of you.

    I will believe all this propaganda when some countries in Asia come forward to bring down China.Right now what i see is Countries slowly joining Chinese camp and leaving US camp,this will be further hastened in the rule of Trump who wants to pull US forces back from wars not related to USA and stop wasteful expenditures and conflicts overseas.

    What arguments did you blow out of the water? You could not come up with a simple argument,except kept muttering Secularism,Perception of the world,becoming Pakistan etc. I asked you to come up with logical answers you kept repeating the same Secularism Church separated from state etc. (Where does Church come in context of Hinduism? do Hindus have churches?then why put Hindus and Christians in the same bracket)

    Your argument on whole was Since Western countries follow Secularism,India has to follow it too or end up being a failed state.
    If a person failed in a exam test doesn't mean everyone will automatically fail exam test.It differs from person to person and country to country.

    India failed to help Kashmiri Hindus and pandits being a Secular Democracy,so your idea that Secularism is good for India went for a toss. Secularism could have,would have,did have,if's and but's .... it is a different issue,Secularism failed to Protect Kashmiri hindus Period!
    Your experiment failed,acknowledge it.

    Secular India chose not to help Hindus to appease Vote banks of Muslims,that is very clear from the picture,they were worried about upsetting Muslim vote if they took any decision to use force against Kashmiri Muslims.That is a failure of Secularism which propped up Vote bank politics and appeasement,EU is going through this phase,where its own citizens are now supporting Right wing parties over Liberal Left wing Parties,because they were fed up of too much Multiculturalism,Secularism,Minority vote bank politics,appeasement,Political Correctness and kissing arse of Muslims.In future you will see all these so called Secular EU countries go back to their foundations and emphasize they are Christian nations loud and clear to the world,as was seen in the USA election recently,the people voted for Trump who exhorted Christian values and asked for a ban on Muslims.The changes around the world is there for all to see.

    I don't worry much about BJP even they are pussies after getting the biggest mandate,they tried to paint themselves as Secular party,They should know no matter how good they become,Muslims will never vote for them,they can kiss arse of Minorities,but that is not going to change their attitude towards BJP,it was the Hindus who voted BJP to power with a overwhelming mandate.If they can remember this then fine,if not BJP can screw itself,any party that support Hindus will get our vote.

    Secularism failed spectacularly to protect the Hindus and their religion and their rights for the past 70 years in India.Secularism became a cuss word now in India because people are fed up of that idea now.Do you know the word Secularism was never there in the preamble of Constitution,it was introduced by Indira Gandhi in 1975 emergency where she ammended the Constitution and included the words Secular and Socialist,when the whole opposition was in Jail.So SECULAR!
    Now give a chance for India to have a state religion to protect Hindus and if it fails then you can crib all you want about it later.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  4. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    First of all, with the exception of the Middle East/Muslim countries who aren't ready for it, Democracy is easily the best form of Government discovered by humans to date. And this is something the Chinese people are on board with if you watched what happens in Hong Kong or in the Tianamen Square.

    Second, you keep saying that China is 100% homogenous in every way imaginable. But that's completely wrong and off the mark. It isn't, not ethnically, not culturally, not linguistically, not religiously or anything else. Your posts show that you overestimate your knowledge of China.

    Again you are on and on and on about countries being strong and not caring what others think or say, but you conveniently ignore the ramifications of such behavior and gloss over the price those countries paid. You wouldn't know, but as someone who grew up in the US, I've watched the negative impact the whole Iraq War and Us vs the world approach had on the economy, public sentiment and global perception/standing of US.

    Founding principles are irrelevant, it's a pointless argument, what matters are the constitutions and way those countries run now. And btw, in case you didnt know, most of America's founding fathers were not by the book Christians, and America was set up as a state where the church and state would be separate, and all would have equal rights. So you can ramble on and on about your imaginary theory how all these western countries are "Christian" but the truth is they are neutral and equal countries which have imported more than their fair share of foreigners with different faiths and allowed them to live freely. Not to mention the millions of Muslims these western countries are importing in the form of refugees to their own detriment.

    It is a simple matter as to why a Hindu Rashtra would become like Pak. You keep saying look at the neighborhood, well in our neighborhood is Pakistan, and that is the ultimate end point of EVERY nation based on religion. The concept itself is moronic.

    You talk about Trump, but you clearly don't know too much about him either, or you would know that his primary target in terms of trade warfare and foreign policy is China. Don't fool yourself into thinking that just because he wants to save money from unnecessary deployments/engagements means he's going to pull all US forces back. The US is here to stay in Asia.

    At this point I'm clearly arguing with someone who doesn't even have full comprehension of what he's reading. You do understand that Separation of Church and State doesn't literally mean churches right LMFAO? It means complete separation of the nation state and religion. You are rambling on and on about Hindus and Churches which is absolutely hilarious to watch.

    You are chasing your own tail with this long stream of conscious ramble about strength and force and power and not caring what anyone thinks and then you introduce some half baked metaphors involving animals to add to the already nonsensical hodge podge of a non argument that you've put forward. Absolutely no coherence. The truth is you are obsessed with a Hindu Rashtra and you came into this with your mind made up to build one, even though there is absolutely no upside to making one. You are determined that that's what you want like a child who insists on a particular toy, and no matter how much logic is presented to you especially pertaining to finer more subtle matters like global perception and image projection, you will keep going on and on about strength in a one dimensional rant lacking in strategic thought.

    Next to blame secularism for what happened to Pandits is beyond stupid. And if you think that what you need to do in order to fix the Pandit issue is make a Hindu Rashtra, then that is even more ridiculous. Just because you couldn't solve one little internal matter you want to change the entire core of your state to a theological one. Do you even have a remote clue of how insane that proposition is?

    As for your argument on Europe and America, you're way off the mark. Those election results were predicated on two simple concepts: Desire for a Gvt tough on Terrorism/anti migrant sentiment and predominantly working class dissatisfaction with poor economic performance. Nothing to do with Christianity, I can say that without question as someone living in the States who closely followed elections. This was a vote to shake up the establishment and get tough on Radical Islam.

    And please stop with the constant crying about secularism failing to protect Hindus, that's a pathetic attempt to feel bad for one's self and cast the blame elsewhere. HINDUS failed to protect themselves. And this would have been the same case in a Hindu Rashtra as well. As long as Hindus are a docile people, and as long as there are enough Hindus who will sell out their own kind and country for votes (and Hindus who vote for Hindu politicians like that) that will be the situation. Hindu Rashtra or not. What needs to change is the attitude and mentality of Hindus, not the core ideology of the state. First change the pathetic mentality of Hindus and grown some bloody backbone, then come with your big talk about building Hindu Rashtras.

    And dont falsely malign secularism. Your whole argument against secularism is bogus, because what you are saying is not secularism. It is PSEUDO Secularism, reverse discrimination against the majority in order to get votes in the garb of "Secularism." Real Secularism is seperation of Religion and Government and One Equal Law for All. And that real secularism, which is practiced in the West, is the best damn form of Government in the world.

    To say that secularism is why Hindus get bullied despite being 80% of population, or were pushed out of Kashmir, or can't build Ram mandir is BULLSHIT. That is just a typical attempt to deflect responsibility for ones own misfortunes onto events and play the victim card.

    If Hindus had the bloody spine, and weren't ready to sell out their own kind for power or vote for such traitors, then they could have built a REAL Secular state with Uniform Civil Code, No Triple Talaq or Sharia. If Hindus were united and had guts, then even in a secular state, Pandits would be in Kashmir today, Ram Mandir would be in Ayodhya, and people like Mulayam, Mamata, Mayawati and to a degree Gandhis & Kejriwal would all be sitting at home right now. So stop being a victim and blaming other things for your misfortune. Grow a spine, unite, and stop voting in politicians who have bastardized secularism into something else to win votes from radical minorities who they prop up.
     
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  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    That is your thinking, People in West were fed this opium that Democracy is the best for everyone and therefore everyone should follow it or they will be forced to follow it.How do Western countries decide what is best for the world and what every country wants?Isn't that imposing your idea on how a country should work and behave as per the western thinking,if this doesn't reek of Neo-Colonialism then i don't know what it is.In Colonial times,the Western countries imposed their way of life on Colonies,making the natives obey and play according to Western POV.
    Chinese people want stability not some utopian Democracy that is being peddled by Western press as the Panacea for all ills.They don't care if Communists provide them stability as long as they are happy,they are good.Don't be fooled by Tianmen square and Hong Kong,this was the same Arab Spring propaganda used by USA to topple government in Middle East and Hong Kong has now gone back to normal.
    You should live in China and then know what the people there think about Democracy etc. don't have myopic view that everyone in China wants Democracy because the western media says so.That is very naive of Americans,they are very easily brainwashed by Propaganda,we saw what Propaganda did against Trump and Euologized Hillary Clinton in recent elections,the western media completely predicted that everyone in USA wanted Hillary to win and Trump was nowhere in the picture,when the dust settled it was the over expectant Hillary supporters that were crying"Not My President" (Oh,boy i thoroughly enjoyed their meltdown and cries after trump win).:devil:

    Chinese consider themselves be Han Race,they have studies and research backing that,USA might want to say they are separate ethnicities so that it could exploit it for future use as in the Case of USA funding the African Dalits or Da-lit's research in India.Trying to separate Da-lit's from Hinduism as some separate race.These sort of propaganda used by USA is not new,It funds Anti-India forces so that it could use them against India in foreseeable future.
    My post shows,my practical experience of living in China,while your post shows that you look at China through Myopic and Propaganda lens of USA sitting in USA.

    The negative effect your Economy had was due to overlending and greediness,that collapsed your Housing and banking sector,Your Nobel prize winners in Economics favoured such practices it has nothing to do with how other countries think about you.

    How are founding principles irrelevant?Don't you Yanks, fight for right to bear arms with every tooth and nail,they were based on founding principles and how are they irrelevant now?Your founding fathers might be atheists but that doesn't take away the fact they were professed Christians and foundation of USA was based on Chrisitianity,you are trying to change goalpost when pointed out USA is a White,Christian protestant nation. Of course Protestants despised the Vatican and the interference of Pope that is why they are called Protestants in the first place.That doesn't mean Protestant christians hate Christianity.
    You are still in denial that is natural for Hillary Supporters though,the vote for trump was a vote for Christian values and to do away with regressive values like LGBT,Feminists and Libtard brigade.

    I asked you many times how will hindu nation become like Pakistan,when both religions are totally different and they have no central or final authority like in Islam there is Quran and Muhammed is the person to be followed as perfect model,there exists no such norm in Hinduism,yet you compare both and arrive that Hindu nation will have the same ending as Pakistan did.
    You cross two horses you get a Horse ,you cross a donkey and Horse you get a Mule.
    You can equate Abrahamic religions (Judaism,Christianity,Islam in between themselves) and come to the conclusion that all such Religious states will lead to the same conclusion,
    How do you compare Hinduism with Abrahamic religion,when there is no link to both in the first place?

    What is hillarious to watch is you calling for separation of church and state in case of Hindu nation,when Hindus have temples not Churches in the first place,that is the fundamental basis.Now you say you meant something different, The basic fundamental question i ask again and again is how do you qualify Hinduism and Christianity in the same bracket?

    Hinduism-Pagans,Polytheistic,No central figure or scripture.
    Christianity-Christian beliefs,Monotheists and a central figure Jesus and Pope with a central scripture Bible.

    So how do you compare both these religions and say both lead to same conclusion, You are trying to avoid answering my question, by beating around the bush,rambling about church and state separation,when there was no church or its influence in State rule in Hindu Kingdoms ever,it was the Kings and Ministers who decided how a state was run not by Priests like Christian nations ran.

    We shall see what trump does in future,He has already indicating lessening tensions with Russia, China.Before elections all Liberals were saying Trump will be a disaster and now you are saying he is good and people don't know him well?

    Secularism is a failed concept in India,You can call it Pseudo Secularism or whatever to please yourself,but the fact remains,people in India are fed up with that word and don't go around shouting USA is the Best country in the world and what USA does is best for everyone in the world,that Sounds like Colonial British rule telling Natives what is best for them and what is not and how they should behave.You can have high opinion of your country USA,but don't go around saying everyone should follow what you do. Russia and China will say you have the worst form of Government and their model is the best for everyone to follow.

    What happened to Pandits is there for everyone to see, why are you trying to cover the facts,that Secularism didnt save them due to vote bank of Muslims.

    Tell me the reason why Hindus cannot built Ram temple in Ayodhya despite being 80% Majority in this country,what stops them when ASI and High court proved and passed judgement in favor of them?Truth is what you want to avoid answering that they are made Dhimmis due to constant feed of Ahimsa which made them unable to even demand for things like Temple and Rehabilitation of pandits in their own country.
    Whenever i ask them why does it happen,People like you come up with absurd arguments as to why Secularism is best and why only Hindus should follow Secularism,while letting religious Countries around you drive Hindus into extinction.

    The sickness of Gandhian way and Secularism is slowly eroding, in another 10 years you shall see the demand for Hindu nation.Secularism was given a death blow in 16 may,2014 elections,The body will be cremated and its ashes will be dispersed, a new Hindu Nation will be ushered in next 10 years. Hindus don't want Secularism which never helped them in the first place.Period.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  6. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Only idiots trusted the American mainstream media in this election, the result was as much an indictment of them as the Left. And you do realize that any sort of dissent, even openly saying you want democracy could have devastating consequences for a civilian and their loved ones in China right? So obviously not many people openly say that, especially to a foreigner like you who they probably couldn't trust. And yet there are still revolts and demonstrations from time to time.

    As for your point on race, that's bogus, I took several history courses in college, one of which was a history of China (with a Chinese professor and TA by the way). But that's honestly not even necessary, any basic level reading on the origins of China and ancient China would tell you it's a far more diverse country than its Communist gvt lets on, and no amount of imposed homogeneity can change that.

    And again, the American economy partly collapsed under the weight of the Iraq War and Global War on terrorism in which America adopted the sort of "world be damned" approach you are advocating now.

    Next, you seriously know nothing about the founding or founders of America, many were professed atheists and deists, and America was set up on the values of the European free thinking philosophers; liberty and equality. Not Christianity, please read up on this rather than trying to argue with me while armed with half knowledge or less. The point about bearing arms is irrelevant, you are trying to argue on founding religious values, so don't obfuscate with second amendment arguments.

    Also, I voted Trump, so stick to what you know rather than making silly assumptions about me.

    And you are failing to grasp this, but the religion itself is irrelevant, the concept of a religious state is in and of itself flawed and doomed. But you keep clamoring for Hindu Rashtra, you're welcome to yearn for going backwards rather than progressing forwards if you want. Thankfully even the BJP wouldn't go as far right as that.

    And if you are now trying to claim that religious leaders had no role in ancient Indian politics, then there's no point even having this debate because in that case you're not even well versed in Indian history let alone American history.

    Liberals didn't know what they were talking about, it remains to be seen how good or bad trump is, but I highly doubt h will be a disaster. And again, if you think he's for lessening tension with China, you don't know Trump, which adds to the list of things you are underinformed about. He is among other things propagating a trade war with China.

    And I have no doubt or hesitation in saying that western styled secular democracy is the best form of government. That is an absolute and undeniable fact and that is why India is also striving for that type of government (though India is plagued by pseudo secular politicians and therefore has certain pampered minorities rather than one law for all). And that argument about China and Russia is beyond stupid, two authoritarian statist regimes which represent some of the worst kind of governing would have no standing to talk about what kind of government is best. It's silly to make arguments just for arguments sake. Secular Democracy is the undisputed best form of government, except for in Muslim majority countries, because by all means Islam and Democracy do not seem compatible at least in the current day and age, although Bangladesh is trying hard to defeat this trend.

    Again, if you want to blame the fate of Pandits on secularism, that's your mistake to make, but you are just shirking responsibility pretending that nothing could have been done because India was "secular." The simple, bitter truth which people like you can't swallow, is that even if you had made your Hindu rashtra, had the attitudes been the same and mindsets been the same, the Pandits wouldve been driven out anyways. But you keep dreaming that dream, go on, you are just ensuring that something similar will happen in the future by trying to cover up the real problems.

    As far as your closing arguments go, I don't know if you're simply blinded by your obsession with Hindu Rashtra and cant read what I wrote, or you are intentionally avoiding reading it because it completely punctures your flimsy case for a religious state, but the simple fact is, making a religious state doesn't solve "dhimmi-hood." Go ahead and make a religious state, but if your people still have dhimmi attitudes and mindsets, nothing will change. Instead, change the attitude and mindset and stop being dhimmis, then you don't even need a Hindu Rashtra. Then you can keep a secular democratic state and STILL build a Ram Mandir or whatever else. If you can't follow that logic, dont bother replying.

    You are also completely off the mark in your assessment of the future. Secularism is here to stay forever, if will outlive you and anyone who wants to create another extremist theological state. What WILL happen, is that real secularism will come to India, now that most Indians have opened their eyes to pseudo secularism and BJP is here. Pseudosecularism died in 2014, now India will be a REAL secular state without a state religion and with one law and constitution that applies equally for all.
     
  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Well the idiots in America who trusted mainstream happened to a lot that is why you still see them coming to terms with Trump win.
    Contrary,to what you think,there is a certain degree of freedom in China,it is not a ironclad fortress as everyone makes you believe.People have all the freedom to make merry,eat,drink,fack who they want and do what they want with their lives and that is what matters to the common people on the ground,Those with grand delusions that Democracy will give them some utopia are mistaken of the needs of common people,they don't care if it is Democracy or Communism as long as they are kept well fed and kept happy.
    Why do you think,the chinese would not reveal things to a foreigner like me,but they will reveal how much they want Democracy to Western press?That is like saying only my version of truth is the absolute truth,while rest are false.

    You took course on Chinese History, not on Genetics,which prove they all belong to a Han race,they have published many Scientific Journals which are thoroughly vetted by Western Scientists(Real Scientists not Social Scientists) and their claims have been proven correct.There might be ethnic chinese groups but that hardly matters they were ruled by Emperors for a long time and gotten use to being Hans.Heck the Chinese even consider Mongols,Japanese as Hans, there is some truth to it,as their language has some similarities. At this point of time,they consider themselves to be Han race and no amount of propaganda by USA to break them apart into ethnic groups will work,it will fall flat on the face of USA in the end.

    The cycle of violence was started by USA,when it started meddling in conflicts which didn't concern the US,it wanted to be a global Policeman and yes You went to war,That was your own doing and there were consequences one side being Economy.But it went single handedly. Just like how China is rejecting the International Tribunal on SCS or russia routinely trolls EU and other nations.That is called power projection and people take notice of that,Love them or hate them,but you cannot ignore them.
    India should stop worrying about dressing to impress neighbors and start making moves that strengthen the country which will have long term benefits.

    My uncle was a Grandmaster of a Free Mason's Lodge,From what i read from the Free Mason's lodge books, i do know about the founders of America and the free thinkers of Europe,what their thought process was.
    The truth is your country USA was founded on Christian Protestant Values.It is a country of White, Anglo-Saxon.Protestant Christians.

    I clearly understand what you are trying to say,but i ask how do you compare Hindus with Christians,Muslims and put them in the same category."It's All Hat and No Cattle".When you are willing to deny the existence of 55 Islamic Nations and 110 Christian nations i would drop my demand to make India a Hindu Nation.
    As i said before BJP will be kicked out if they don't work for the welfare of Hindus,If BJP thinks it can take Hindus for a ride they will get the same result they got in 2004 and 2009,BJP will become Middle of Center party in future,while there will be other Right of center parties,which will get the Hindu votes in future.

    Religious leaders of India in the past,didn't have a role in day to day administration and state matters,they were only concerned with spirituality and other related matters.While it was the opposite case in Christian and Islamic nations,where what Religious leaders said was Gospel truth,even the King/Emperor was scared to go against such dictums.My knowledge of India is very good and i don't care much about America as long as it stays in its place and no indulge in warmongering.

    I See a win Win situation for India with Trump at helm.
    A)if he lessens tensions in Asia and stops meddling in Asian affairs,it will be ok,India will get on with its life and drop the Asian pivot and concentrate more on it's internal affairs.

    B)If Trump is a disaster for America and manages to break up that country,even that is a Win for India as finally with USA gone,there will be no global policeman or Human rights,LGBT,Feminist rights Nazi who has a Holier than thou attitude and tries to Send Covert forces like NGO's and Missionaries to try and break up India and Convert Hindus all that Nonsense would stop once USA breaks up and the Missionaries and their proxies are left without money.
    Given the options i would choose Option B,which is much better for India on long run.

    Western Style Democracy is suited for Western countries,it is not a "ONE SIZE FIT'S ALL" that might be your opinion given that American cockiness,that no one is better than them and they are greatest country in the world,you can live in your bubble,don't expect everyone to behave like you do.
    Russia is not a Authoritarian regime,it might look like that to you because they don't indulge in depravity like USA does and unleash LGBT,Feminists,Liberal idiots on the world. These countries care about their culture,citizens and Future of their countries that is why they keep such nefarious elements from USA away,that might seem Authoritarian to you,but not for them,they are protecting their citizens against Debauchery,Depravity USA has led itself into, it is the modern day "SODOM AND GOMORRAH" American family is a broken family,The 1960's had some sanity and that is the reason USA still had some sense of family,Teenage pregnancies, Putting Parents in Old age homes,foster kids,drugs,single mothers is what USA has led itself into.
    That is nothing to be proud of,which USA thinks itself of being great.

    Secularism failed Kashmiri Pandits that is the truth.the sooner you realise it the better aware you are. Like i said,before Secularism experiment was already tried, it failed in India to protect Hindus,Let Hindu Nation be ushered and then you can give your thesis about how it was bad etc. Without even letting it happen,you are speculating it will fail,that is the same speculation MSM and Clinton indulged in Trump election campaign

    I gave you many reasons why a Hindu nation would be beneficial for Hindus,all you came up with was again the same rhetoric of why Secularism is good( when it has actually failed in India's case) ,separation of church and state, That context cannot be applied to India or the Hindus as i explained earlier or why Hindu Nation will fail,just because Some Islamic nations didn't prosper.You never had a Hindu nation now,how can you speculate?
    AFAIK Hindu ruler ruled states prospered and contributed very much in science,technology,Arts,Mathematics,Medicine and warfare and were evident on the global GDP ratio India contributed to, until the Islamic invaders came in and turned it to dust.

    Making a religious Hindu state will get rid of this "Dhimmi Hood" and Ahimsa hood the Hindus have put themselves into,by inculcating values of valor,courage and strength,which Secularism is too sissy to teach them about.
    My attitude thank god for my parents and my upbringing which taught me how to fight back.
    i am worried about the Fellow Hindus,who become pussies to even ask for their rightful claim like Ayodhya Temple or Rehabilitation of Pandits.

    Secularism is a goner already,it has lived past it's expiry date.The grand Nehru-Gandhi experiment failed,as more Hindus realize the danger they are in demographically and other ways,they will shed their Secularism and demand for a Hindu Nation in future.
    The change is already there for you to see,BJP was voted with overwhelming Majority of Hindus,overcoming their caste barriers and this will only get better as Young kids are taught in the Hindu way of life in future,the future generation will be even more tougher and will demand Hindu Nation, that is the destiny of Bharat, it is another thing that if Western countries will go back to fundamentals and exhort Christendom or not.The future for EU looks that way.

    i guess you should watch this Video
    https://www.facebook.com/RajivMalhotra.Official/videos/734966636656676/
    He is a NRI like you and he can exhort what is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
  8. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Maybe because there are Chinese dissidents, mainly ones who have left China, who routinely talk about how rough shit is in China and how even many basic freedoms aren't there in China. Maybe because China tries its ass off to hide protestors for Democracy from the world, but it can't. There have been multiple protests for Democracy, and the longer they are stuck in their minimal level of rights, the better the chance they will rise up. Another thing you don't seem to understand is that China's monstrous GDP growth is practically over now, the people could be kept happy/quiet with less rights as long as the economy was booming and they were seeing improvement in their lives, that's not gonna be the case for most average Chinese now.

    You have swallowed the Chinese line on ethnicity, hook and sinker, but the claims of complete homogeneity are a joke. You do realize that China doesn't even speak one language right, there is Cantonese in some parts and Mandarin in others, even that is a cause for certain degree of tensions.

    You seem to understand the consequences of acting unilaterally against the rest of the world in today's day and age at long last, what makes you think India won't suffer the same fate? India is not even close to as powerful as peak USA or China yet, if unilateralism landed them in trouble, it will put India in deep trouble.

    When the USA was founded it had a majority of white A-S Protestants, but America was never made as a White AS country and it's values are those of the free thinking revolution of Europe and its philosophers, not Protestantism, and the constitution went to great lengths to grant equality to all regardless of religion, and separate religion and state. Protestantism hasn't ever dictated how America runs or works, nor has it been imposed in any shape on non Protestant Americans.

    There are no national level parties that can fill in BJP's place or get right of center votes, and the Hindu vote is not nearly as consolidated as you pretend. BJP didn't win 2014 for Hindutva, it won because it pulled in people other than hardliner Hindus who wanted development and good governance.

    As for religious leaders, even in India, kings did not dare disrespect or oppose what a religious leader said, even if the leader was interfering in state administration, which DID happen.

    What will happen is Trump will help India probably put the squeeze on Pakistan and take on China, and while I routinely hear that talk from other hardcore right wingers, the truth is India and the world are both better off with America around, there is no better country that could be the world superpower. It's better than the USSR or China leading the world, like it or not.

    As for your pro Russia arguments, that is pure RT level propaganda. Russia is a glorified dictatorship run by Vladimir Putin, and he goes to incredible lengths to crush dissent within his country, if you somehow aren't aware of that or want to deny it, that's really your problem. But Putin is "democratic" just like Indira Gandhi was in Emergency, and even then, Indira hardly ever got most of her opponents killed.

    Again, you can try to shake off responsibility all you want, but Hindus failed Pandits, not secularism. Hindus in their own country despite having all the means necessary to help and resettle Pandits, couldn't find the balls to do a thing. Such a mindset would make your Hindu Rashtra useless too, declaring a state religion doesn't magically make an entire docile group of people grow balls overnight.

    SOME Islamic states? Are you serious? You keep saying there are 55 Islamic nations, well guess what, FIFTY FOUR of those are failed states or dictatorships not counting Bangladesh. Does that tell you NOTHING? And the stat on Christian countries is BS, there are pretty much no explicitly Christian countries in this day and age, they are secular democracies that have imported plenty of immigrants and refugees in a pluralistic approach to society. In fact most of these states have even imported plenty of Muslim refugees in spite of the potential negative effects to them and the domestic opposition to so many Muslim refugees. A Christian country would be selfish and would not put itself in harm's way to help people of it's #1 enemy religion like that. And the Hindu states you talk about were kingdoms, a single region/state ruled by monarchy many centuries ago is not a good reason to try to create an entirely Hindu Indian state NOW in the 21st century. Surely you must be able to differentiate between a small ancient Hindu kingdom and a 1.2 Billion strong nation that's been a secular democracy for more than half a century.

    Making a state won't magically make anyone a non Dhimmi, you create a Hindu state and the people living in it tomorrow will still be Dhimmis, you strike me more and more as someone frustrated by current situation who has this unrealistic hope and dream that just one radical move will magically change and fix everything when the problem is much deeper than that.

    Also your talk of a Grand Hindu votebase and movement demanding a state is hogwash, just recently BJP got its ass kicked in Bihar due to casteism, in the year 2016. There is no Hindu unity or homogeneity along the lines you claim or demand, HIndus are as divided along regional, caste and religious subgroup lines as the past.
     
  9. soulspeek

    soulspeek FULL MEMBER

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    That Sanghi dream will never be fulfilled. India is not able to manage terrorism from handful of extremists. What would happen if millions of them become extremists. We are not talking of 10 lac minorities. We are talking about 30 crore of them. They are living peacefully as of now. Your action will create utter mayhem and bloodshed among all communities of India. Think before you speak.

    This is how the Government should proceed. Though I do not agree with population increase of muslims. Demographic ratio should be maintained. Maximum two kids per family should be the rule.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2016
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  10. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There *should* be a one child policy in India overall strictly out of overpopulation worries, but sadly you can't do any such thing in a democracy. I agree though, it'd be good if Muslims cut down on their birthrate and focused on improving the state and living standards of those Muslims who are alive, otherwise they will stay a disproportionately poor, undereducated, underemployed and crime prone community.
     
  11. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    One child policy is not as good as it sounds,it will cause severe issues in 20-30 years.Population growth is necessary for economic growth until the country reached a certain stage.
     
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  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You keep saying that,You didn't expect BJP to win Majority nor did you expect trump to win or see the change in the world where left parties got demolished.
    If India is to remain peaceful on the long term and no demand for another Pakistan arises with the booming Minority population,who will eventually demand their pound of flesh,India has to declare itself a Hindu country now, or wait for a Civil war in future.
    When the Minorities reach 25% population like happened during 1947 Partition,the cycle will repeat again.
    Hindus should secure themselves in the only country they have,the minorities have over 160 nations to go to.
    India is playing fair that is why it is not able to manage terrorists from a handful extremists due to political interference of Secular Parties.Once,it stops playing fair,then see how quickly everyone gets pacified.If India stops playing fair and goes after the families of terrorists in a collective punishment,then automatically those terrorists will think twice about bombing innocent civilians.That is how India should control terrorism,Terrorists hit civilians,their families will be a target for Indian security forces.

    Look at how China and Israel manages its problems. That should be a lesson to India to have a Homogenous identity like the jews have for Israel and Chinese have the Han race as identity.
    India should have Hindu nation as identity to secure itself,if it keeps placating minorities by calling itself secular,these very same minorities will one day bring down the Secularism and impose their theological state as is has happened in North East demand a Christian Nation and Kashmir,Kerala demanding Sharia rule.The effect is already there in Assam with just 25% Muslims Hindus have to vacate their own land
    Minorities think they can intimidate 80% of hindus with 30 crores? When it should be the other way around,they should be intimidated and think if they turn 30 crore,then 100 crores will turn against them,the numerical superiority itself will put them at a disadvantage,
    27 crores where most are uneducated VS 100 crore+ where majority are educated,You do the Maths,They will be scattered like dust if they every go that path. If Minorities think they can dictate the destiny of this Country and Hindus,then they will be shown their right place,no further demands for remaining Secular will arise.

    The minorities are safe as long as Hindus are good,if they think they can attack Hindus then all bets are off,you don't want to go down that path of pissing off each and every Hindus and then cry Victim when there is a reaction from them.

    Mayhem and Bloodshed already happened in 1947,there will be another one in future once they reach 25% mark my words,this cycle and plan is repeated everywhere around the world by the same religions. Therefore,declaring India as Hindu nation will prevent such future conflicts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
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  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You can say what you want,but this is the future of India to become a Hindu nation. Just because Abrahamic religion based Islamic countries failed,doesn't mean a Hindu country where there is no Monotheism and totally different from Abrahamic religions should also fail.
    If X + X produce the same result
    then X + Y will produce a different result.
    The election of 2014 was just a beginning,start of Hindu renaissance,You shall see how the Next generation are already being molded , Secularism andMinority Appeasement got kicked in the butt after 65 years,as more people become proud Hindus you will see changes.

    We don't need to do anything,the Secular and minority appeasement groups will do the job for us, while we just sit and convey the warnings to hindus, The Secular and Minority Appeasement groups will slowly goad the Neutral and Secular Hindus into being ashamed of themselves and then there will come a point,where that Hindu will break and say "i had enough for this shaming for being a Hindu" and then becomes opposite of what these Secularists wanted,"a staunch Hindu" This process has happened with a lots of them,who were pushed into a corner with the cursed word Secularism.This is a ongoing process.We don't need to do anything,the Secular parties will do it,we just have to wait and watch.You have witnessed,how parties stopped using the word Secularism in elections,because they know now,it won't work as more and more Hindus become aware of their existence and dangers with such Secularism. Future elections will have parties clamoring for Hindu vote banks,That itself will put the narrative for dropping the world Secularism and propping up Hindu Rasthra.

    All we need to say ,to those were shamed for being Hindus,is didn't we say it before?You never listened to us and chose Secularism,now you know the real face of it and where you stand.
    It is a Win Win situation for Hindu Rasthra.:devilwork:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  14. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Population control is also necessary, a huge amount of India's problems are caused (either partially or fully) or at least made much worse by overpopulation and a massive population density. The point is carrying out careful studies and projections so that you know when to allow 2 children per family again. There's also the fact that the world is going to experience a big shortage of resources as time goes on, and then there will be resource conflicts, sort of like the Kaveri dispute but wayyy worse, and that woul dbe massively exacerbated if our population was out of control (which it already is).
     
  15. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That's actually nonsensical, what is your idea of a Hindu state anyways? Is it one where people of other religions and lower castes get beaten up or killed by vigilante mobs and groups like "gau rakshaks" for skinning dead carcasses or consuming beef? Or is it one where the national anthem, is rather stupidly demanded by the Supreme Court to be played before movies and everyone must stand; and then disabled people are beaten up for not standing without even being asked why they aren't standing (in any other country people would laugh if the Supreme Court started issuing diktats like this btw)?

    If you are happy/ok with these sort of changes which followed the BJP's win, due to the small far far right wing fringe that followed them into power, and that is what your Hindu Rashtra looks like, I'm damn happy that there will never be one. Because those are the beginnings of a Hindu Pakistan, and that makes Hinduism look worryingly similar to the intolerant, violent Abrahamic religions. It is India's good fortune that Modi is a smart and capable leader who didn't bend in front of those far right wing groups and organizations led by jackasses like Togadia.

    Also, there is no such thing as a Hindu vote bank and there probably won't ever be one, the swathes of Hindus that the BJP picks up through a combination of good governance promises and mild/heavy polarization is about as close as you can get to Hindu unity when voting. This is for many reasons, Hindus have never been a united people, we are deeply split along caste and regional lines, more so probably than other religions who see themselves as belonging to that religion first (and sometimes, unfortunately, they even see their religion before their country, but that's a different matter). On top of that, we are the overwhelming majority. When you are a massive majority with no sort of worry or threat, you are able to vote individually or as small groups, it is harder to consolidate (except for specks in time like the Ram Janmabhoomi/Babri Masjid time period or massive riot periods like '93). But when you are a minority, it is both easier and more necessary to vote as a bloc, in a smaller population there's a greater sense of unity, and accurately or not, they see voting as an important part of pulling their minimal clout in the country (which they have to maximize) to ensure that they are in the best possible position.

    Anyhow, I really don't believe such a religious state will ever even occur, fortunately. There are enough people in this day and age who won't stand for it, beyond a certain very mild degree of religious fascism brought by groups like VHP, you can't implement much more in a democracy without setting off massive alarm bells throughout the country and world. So unless religious fascism inspired by the far right finds a way into India and completes some sort of government upheaval pulling India away from democracy, I don't see a religious state happening (but all of what I just said is quite unlikely anyways, this current amount of state Hinduism is probably the limit which BJP is wisely not crossing).
     

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