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No technology transfer in the Su-30 spare parts deal

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by layman, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    The agreement last month between the Russian manufacturers of Sukhoi-30 aircraft and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for supply of spares does not entail any technology transfer, parliament was told on Tuesday.

    “Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has signed agreements with Russian original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and United Engine Corporation (UEC) for long-term support on after sales service of Su-30 MKI aircraft…

    “The Agreement signed by HAL with Russian OEMs are for long-term supply of spares and rendering technical assistance for five years and do not cover any technology transfer,” Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre told the Rajya Sabha in a written reply.

    The agreement, signed during the Indo-Russia Military-Industrial Conference held here on March 17-18, will allow HAL to procure spares on the price catalogues directly from the manufacturers, thus improving the after sales service by reducing lead time in their procurement.

    The frontline strike fighter of the Indian Air Force has suffered serviceability problems in the past

    One of the agreements, signed between HAL and UAC, is for the supply of spares and technical assistance for five years, while the second between HAL and UEC is for supply of spares for engines of Russian origin.

    A report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) in December 2015 said Su-30 MKI aircraft with the IAF suffer from poor serviceability, which is just around 55 per cent against the prescribed norm of 75 per cent.

    In January 2017, then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the serviceability of the fighters has improved, and is now at 60 per cent. Informed sources said the present serviceability of the Su-30 MKI fleet is between 60 and 65 per cent.

    Source
     
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  2. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    “The Agreement signed by HAL with Russian OEMs are for long-term supply of spares and rendering technical assistance for five years and do not cover any technology transfer,”

    Interesting...
     
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  3. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is a spare parts deal. No one was expecting tech transfer.
     
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  4. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Thought Indigenous included atleast ToT for spares...
     
  5. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    this is why FGFA deal is taking so much time
     
  6. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    This is why i would like to see the AMCA and Tejas mk2 and @vstol jockey sir's LSA......
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Some but not all and that will never happen anyway, since Russia don't give up a steady source of income for their industry. Neither will France btw in case of the Rafale and we have seen how costly it got with the Mirage.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Everybody wants to see them, but fully developed and because they are capable to defend the country, not only because they are Indian.

    A Mig29K with Uttam Aesa and Kaveri / Snecma engines will be more capable and able to defend the country than an NLCA. And the security of the country has to come first!
     
  9. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    If they cant even provide ToT for spares then India seriously should look into their Ingenious development.
    Because these spares cannot be made without permission locally no wonder there is a lot of MKI's still stuck in the hangars due to shortage of spares.
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Do you expect all the spares from GE404 or 414 to be build in India? Upgrades of EL2052 radar won't be done by us either.
    We simply have to be realistic about what is possible indigenously and what isn't. The aim of both MKI and LCA must be to get a high content of parts that can be build and upgraded in India, but as said, an inferior fully Indian fighter won't protect the country, compared to a more capable foreign fighter with partial Indian content.
     
  11. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Well if India were able to get atleast 400+ engines atleast India should be able to make parts locally for servicing.

    Realistically speaking if India keeps playing with this filling gaps and not insisting on Tech transfers or co-developments it will take a long time before they can catch up in tech,may be even decades.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    We can't insist, we can only negotiate and putting pressure on the Russians with negative media reports surely is a key too. I would be happy to see a heavy class engine, to replace the AL 31s instead of Kaveri K10, because the operational costs in IAF are largely based on them and the large MKI fleet. Even if we could get 400 LCA's with Kaveri engines, IAF would still suffer from high costs and dependents on Russia. But then again, pride is leading us too often, rather than logic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  13. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I never said so sir, country comes first, but the only way to get or make something good is when the end user uses it regularly and keeps on giving input on the usage and how to improve on it, just use it along side capable systems, like use tejas along side Su30's, migs and rafale and keep improving it, the navy used to operate rajput class destroyers, the inputs from officers and people working on it paved the way for delhi class and followed by Kolkata and now its Visakhapatnam, same way their should be constant effort to really bring amca to reality...
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    That's exactly what IAF wants, but they can't use a half developed fighter with numerous shortcomings, that is a decade late.
    It's not like they don't want indigenous fighters, but the fact remains that our industry is not able to provide capable and reliable fighters and techs so far.
    That's why we should focus on the areas we did mastered (EW for example) and try to improve in other areas. But dreaming of an AMCA instead of FGFA is ignoring our lack of capability and the fact that FGFA will be far more capable as a fighter too and therefor more vital for the defence of the country.
     
  15. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    India pushes for stronger ties with Russia to support Su-30MKI fighters
    Published April 13, 2017
    SOURCE: IHS Jane’s Defence Industry

    [​IMG]

    India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has said stronger ties between Indian and Russian aerospace companies are required to boost support for the Indian Air Force’s (IAF’s) expanding fleets of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter aircraft, which are produced locally under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

    Citing parliamentary comments by Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre, the MoD said on 11 April that it has identified a total of 485 components and parts on the Su-30MKI aircraft that could be produced by Indian private-sector companies following technology transfers from Russia.

    “Towards this, 20 Indian vendors have been introduced to the Russian original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) to find out the feasibility of transfers of technology in the fields desired by Indian vendors,” said the MoD.

    It added that it has requested Russia to consider permitting the OEMs to “establish joint ventures or other means of localisation with Indian private industry partners [to] manufacture [the Su-30MKI] spare parts through transfers of technology”.

    The MoD’s moves to promote stronger industrial links to support the Su-30MKI were revealed one year after India’s state-owned HAL signed an agreement with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and United Engine Corporation (UEC) to enhance after-sale support for the Su-30MKI aircraft.

    The MoD said this agreement had emphasised HAL’s procurement of spare parts for the aircraft. It added, “The agreement signed by HAL with Russian OEMs is for the long-term supply of spares and rendering technical assistance for five years [but] does not cover any technology transfers.”

    The MoD said that despite this, the HAL-Russian agreement would enable the Indian company to procure the required spares “based on the price catalogues directly from the OEMs … and boost after-sales service by reducing lead time in procurement of spares significantly”.

    In addition, Jane’s reported in January that HAL is in talks with Russian industry representatives about a potential programme to produce more than 300 Su-30MKI line replaceable units (LRUs).

    Source
     
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