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NSCN agrees to ‘shared sovereignty’

Discussion in 'Internal Affairs' started by Butter Chicken, May 11, 2017.

  1. Veeran

    Veeran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    SC is an unelected body and I've always believe all these non-elected bodies should be shown their place.
    Otherwise it is a slave system
     
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  2. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

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    It did not happened like this. It never happens like this.

    What happened was that North East was mostly animists, and animism is not an organized religion with coherent beliefs, thus whichever organized religion reaches them and preaches them first, converts that region into their religion. This is how, India converted to Hinduism and Africa converted to Christianity.

    When Britishers were ruling, they considered NE people like "noble savages" and did not allowed missionaries to operate in that area. So these areas remained animist during British rule. But Nehru ,being a Hindu hating super saiyan level coon that he is, removed restrictions on missionaries to preach, while at the same time oppressing RSS (which was only Hindu organization that was organized enough to have taken proselytization work), thus eliminating competition and giving a free hand to missionaries to convert NE animists, except Hindus of Manipur and Assam and Buddhists of North-East frontier agency which already had an organized religion to compete. Whole of NE converted to Christianity under Nehru's government, not British.

    This has nothing to do with education or health facilities. Missionaries spent a lot of money in mainland India too, but failed to get many converts, and still fail. World over ,it is charismatic branch of protestant christianity, Pentecostalism, which get most new christian convert, not catholics who spend most money on providing social services. Money does not buy significant number of converts.

    And you are wrong that GoI ignores North East. GoI's grants make up nearly whole budget of most NE states. Also, from where have you heard that NE society is matriarchal? That is bullshit fact. Having some matriarchal tribes does not mean that society is matriarchal. Mind you, there were very big protest in NE over GoIs decision to provide 33% reservation to women in local bodies.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
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  3. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    @Levina see what this hellphire gaai is taaking about.
    Time to drill some sense into our evil moddy.:whistle:
     
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  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Our constitution is the most funny constitution in the world. They allowed conversions by inducements and that is the single reason for the 7% missing hindu population of India since independence.
     
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  5. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    Apples and oranges. State A-> Enemy neighboring country proxies and sponsored infiltrators who hate us to death and want to kill without reason. State B->Friendly neighboring country with zero proxies and infiltrators; small groups of our people who want us to respect their history and culture. Modi has turned the tables on Nehru's dumb policies. Nagas were crushed using military force while Kashmiris get Article 370. That changes now!
     
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  6. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Not much :
    Only few things like :
    1. Union Govt recently signed peace accord, the document is not made public.
    2. They consider themselves ethnically different from Meitis and other tribes in Manipur and are asking for separate land for themselves.
    3. This tribe also gets special access upto some KMs into Burma for trade.

    and some other things. Its not like, I comment here with zero knowledge I know few goods things about them, but I also know that the more you accept their social demand e.g. opposition to woman's reservation in local election, the more they'll try to dominate.
     
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  7. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Well his language may be wrong but I don't think he is wrong. After British annexation of the area after 1825 AD, the missionaries started entering the region and they started converting many of this ethnic tribal group to Christianity. If you think I am wrong, you can refer the modern history book of the most secular author of our country, you'll still get the same answer.

    Luckily Nagas have preserved their culture along with Maitis.
     
  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    So, would you say that India is 'clean' in it's approach here?


    A very untenable differentiation. The same can be argued for the Kashmiris too. And how has Modi turned the tables on "Nehru's dumb policies" in Naga Accord?

    Are you aware of the genesis of the present accord?

    They have been given everything except independence, same as Kashmir.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Allow me to sum it up as above - 'everything except independence'.

    So you think their gripe against Government of India is their difference with Meitis and other tribes and has nothing to do with the fact that they were 'annexed' at the time of independence and their traditional grazing lands upto River Chindwin were unilaterally surrendered by Government of India in Indo-Burma Border Agreement of 1948? They had declared 'independence' on August 14 1947, being an annexed region in 1881 only. They had also represented to the Simon Commission in 1918 to 'leave them alone to govern themselves'.

    NSCN (K) has written agreement with Myanmar Army where they do not get harassed by the latter :D

    Don't worry, it's not as if I comment with zero knowledge either :D

    The process was started in 1999.
     
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  10. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    No. There is a very brutal history. But now we are making amends late than never.


    Disagree. Kashmiri muslims have become Pakee proxies. They either want independence or join enemy country/hate India. Versus Nagas want us to treat them fairly.
    Yes. Modi has recognized their unique history(Vajpayee did first). Nehru did not(Another ex. remember his infamous 'goodbye Assam' trip in 1962 or more proof is required of his terminal stupidity?)
    No. Current Nagaland is a regular state like any other.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  11. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    More correctly 'shared sovereignty'. We will have to wait what exactly PM means by that. Will not be surprised if Modi comes up with some political innovation.

    Nagas still have their lands(Naga inhabited area in Myanmar is even bigger than here. Guess news for most).
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Sovereignty:
    A state with a defined territory that administers its own government and is not subject to or dependent on another power.
    ‘the internal affairs of a sovereign state’

    With the exception of Foreign Policy, Defence, Telecommunications, Commerce, Currency and the usual paraphernalia, autonomy has been given. What is shared sovereignty if not precisely this?

    There is nothing surprising and innovative like this. This has been in works since CO 17 Assam Rifles and DDGS Assam Rifles were sent unarmed and unaccompanied to Ukhrul in the Tangkhul heartland to make contact with Thuingaleng Muivah in 1999. Thence, his daughter Cheri (? I don't exactly recall her name), was brought to Shillong under care of Assam Rifles and she pursued her degree at North Eastern Hill University in Shillong.

    I wish I could share more information, but I think beyond this, shall be 'imprudent'


    Not the ancestral land which got 'divided' - the territory upto River Chindwin.

    Sigh! Lot of things are news for most. Ignorance/half baked knowledge is rampant.


    That (the bold portion) I would have totally agreed with you, had it not been for the fact that the history would suggest we did exactly a Punjab on Kashmir too, thereby allowing them the option of looking towards Pakistan. Politics. It is rather unfair to only blame them, as Pakistan has a very minor role to play in the domestic affairs in Kashmir, the lion's share being played by the farce between the politicians in Delhi (and their bureaucrats who have no clue) the same duo in Kashmir and the separatists. A gimmick to project the problem as a political 'struggle' whereas it remains dacoity and larceny under garb of political dissent.

    Nagas wanted independence. The patience of the Indian State and perseverance, has paid dividends. 1952 till date, we have controlled the insurgency. More deadly attacks and higher casualties have taken place in North-East, yet, not a squeak in Indian mainstream media and neither amongst our 'enlightened' citizens.

    More brutally we have carried out reprisals .... that is how insurgency is defeated - the side having greater terror is able to dissuade the masses from supporting the other's cause.

    And no, please go to Nagaland. You have clearly demarcated 'Indian territory' and NSCN Territory. They levy taxes, warn Indian Security Forces from coming into their area and generally carry out all tasks as a governing body.

    Reality is a different thing than what you claim it to be.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  13. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    Talks were deadlocked for long. Now there is some movement forward. Lets wait for the real deal, hopefully soon.




    They are identified as Myanmar Nagas who live there. Famous ex. SS Khaplang(needs no intro think)




    Pakistan has a small role?( Profile flag is Indian-surprised?!). Anyway military solution in Kashmir was long overdue.

    It did not solve the problem for so long. Now there is hope. That said NSCN(IM) is only one group. There are others.

    Its illegal but our army allows it due to politics of peace process. I did not say otherwise.
     
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Deadlocked because they wanted independence. As the Indian economy picks up pace, there is ripple affect. Obviously you need the Economic Backup to fight insurgencies.

    With renewed thrust on Asian Highway and connectivity of the region to Mynamar and Thailand, hopefully things will continue to improve.

    I am aware. Quite well actually.

    Funny! Never understood the Indian concept of blaming others without understanding your own contribution.
    I have ample exposure to the valley to know what I am talking about. Do you?

    What military solution? Where?

    The conflict has to be solved politically. Military solution was achieved in 1996 and then 2007. Get your facts straightened out.

    There is no military solution. There is political and the other end of spectrum is systematic genocide/cleansing, which is not possible. I am amazed by your post here.



    Insurgency is fought by wearing the other's resolve to continue. It takes decades. I think the counter insurgency effort is remarkable. At least, US thinks so too. They took out their Doctrine extensively relying on Indian experiences :)


    Now I find you pretty funny. In J&K there is a military solution and here politics of peace process? Confused?
    What missed you?
     
  15. sangos

    sangos Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    Actually thanks to the (future)accord and its new framework of peaceful coexistence.


    Not really. Called pacification. Ex. Chechnya(very peaceful now btw). Kashmir can be similar after an enema. Now one can argue about the Chechens in ISIS etc. Russians have been innovative and we can learn how to keep scumbags down and out.

    [​IMG]



    Its serious. War with pakistan and their Kashmiri proxies period.
    There is a Naga peace process(was in the news)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017

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