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P-15A Kolkata-class DDG : News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by prototype, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    This is being mentioned on defence forums but no offical indications exist as of now AFAIK.

    Anyway, the BARAK-8ER with 150-190KM range will be a pretty devestating SAM initself and this is confirmed, should be ready by 2020.
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    New missiles will be a surprise addition. Like how the AAD/PAD were revealed only when testing started. We need ships that can carry enough numbers of larger missiles and the sensors necessary to use them. So small pieces of information will give away intentions far too early.
     
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  3. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

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    Could have Barak-8 for the four new Talwars? I'm not sure about this 1 though. But Shivalik class may sport B8 in-future.

    Apart from that, currently no new ships planned yet. New corvettes are expected to have a short range capability in the form of DRDO-MBDA Maitri SR-SAM and same to be fitted to Kamorta class ASW Corvettes.

    Good Day!
     
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  4. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I don't know why they go for shtil missile?
     
  5. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I don't think they will evolve Barak8 into 200 km SAM, it doesn't make sense to make a slow mach 2 air defense missile for 200km range. If there would be a 200km missile it must be a whole new one.
     
  6. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    VLS /Shtil system possibility for the Existing Hulls that have the 3S-90 launcher . Reason being that they have existing tracking and targeting for the Shtil system, thus being more cost affective !

    Case and point the Delhi class - Did read an article that the launchers will be replaced for a VLS system
     
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  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    First 3 Talwar class and 3 Delhi class are getting upgraded to Shtil VLS , Which is a good enough system.

    Replacing it to Barak is not a cost effective solution.
     
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  8. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Is it difficult to have a redesigned launcher for Barak8 on p-17/17A and Talwar class FFGs ?
     
  9. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Why? Barak8 can't be guided with Radar other than MFStar?
     
  10. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The Barak 8 is specifically designed to be used for a VLS . The 3S-90 launcher is russian designed specific for the Shtil ... SO NO it can't be redesigned and why would it be???
    A VLS is more advantage, efficient and effective than a Single Arm Launcher

    Possibility of the barak-8 to be guided other than the MFstar is there BUT as mentioned Its is MORE Cost effective to have the VLS for the Shtil
     
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  11. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I meant we couldn't remove shtil launcher and replace it with barsk8 launcher ? or our ffg dont have enough space?
    Let us take our ffGs to DDG levels :azn:
     
  12. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    No, Especially for russian systems. barak 8 is largely a israel system.
    Integration is as hard as making a missile.
     
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  13. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Think you are missing the point of it being cost effective

    For eg, lets take the delhi class. its SAM components are 3 parts

    Part 1 Tracking , targeting - Russian System
    Part 2 Launching System , in this case Single arm - 2 Nos. one ahead of the bridge and one at the stern above the hanger - russian
    Part 3 Shtil Missiles - russian

    It is simpler to replace the launching system with a VLS with minor mods for the tracking targeting and the shtil missiles (mods for existing missiles to enable to be launched from a VLS)

    Than

    Putting in A Barak-8 missile and VLS an israel system and trying to integrating it with the russian systems (here more time for testing , integrating and more cost)
     
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  14. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Nope I am not missing it but just want to make those FFG on par with Destroyers when it comes to air defense at the cost of whole system upgradation and shtil is not as capable as Barak8 range-wise. :cool:
     
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  15. Gessler

    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The 6 existing Talwars will receive the VLS-launched Shtil system (9M317ME missile round).

    [​IMG]

    The Delhi-class upgrade can go one of two ways. Either we can retain the existing Russian support network and install the same VLS Shtil as on Talwar/Grigorovich, or we can do a deep-upgrade bringing in a total shift to Israeli AD systems. This will make it comparable with the Kolkata-class - and will imply installation of the MF-STAR mast on the Delhi-class DDG. I've heard that this was being considered as the SLEP upgrade at some point of time...dunno if they still entertain the idea. Either way, the Israeli shift will deliver a quantum leap in capability and make the Delhi-class stand toe to toe with the Kolkata/Bengaluru on most aspects. But the VLS Shtil is the cheaper, easier & relatively risk-free way forward. The downside is that Delhi might not be able to comprehensively work as an integral part of task forces/carrier groups - as all of our modern main surface combatants (and carriers too) will be using the MFSTAR+Barak-8 combo.

    Personally, I'd love to see Delhi receive the MFSTAR+Barak-8 upgrade. It will cost more, and will take more time...but we need to remember that even though Delhi might come across as an old design (it pretty much is), the ships were actually commissioned fairly recently. With the last one (INS Mumbai) joining the fleet only in 2001. We're talking about nearly 7,000-ton destroyers with lot of service life left in them...it makes perfect sense to spend some extra money on the full Israeli upgrade. The VLS Shtil might just be a half-baked solution when we realize that we might be seriously hindering the network-centric capabilities of these massive ships especially at a time when we're losing surface combatants and state-run yards take way too long to deliver on new ships.

    My vote goes for the MFSTAR+Barak-8 upgrade.

    The arm-launcher is a relic of a bygone era. I'm astonished that we were commissioning ships with this setup as recently as 2012 (INS Sahyadri). The only thing good here is that the Delhi/Shivalik at least have VLS Barak-1 for point defense. Which leads us to wonder which way the Shivalik-class will go in the future? Their arm launchers as just as obsolete as the Delhi's. Their follow-on class P-17A is already confirmed to be going the Israeli way. Need me to spell out what I think should/would happen with the Shivalik upgrade (whenever that is)?

    6 more MF-STARs please.

    Dammit, why didn't we localize production for this radar?

    3 x Kolkata-class
    4 x Bengaluru-class
    7 x P-17A
    3 x Delhi UPG
    3 x Shivalik UPG
    1 x Vikrant IAC-1

    That's 21 x MF-STAR sets right there! And we're likely to fit the same radar on the 4 x LHDs, any future carrier, and ofcourse all the ships in the NG destroyer class! Thousands & thousands of T/R elements, back-end components, cooling systems, radar computers etc. Does someone know how much (if any) is localized? @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @randomradio @vstol jockey @R!CK
     
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