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PAK-FA 5th Generation Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. SplitPakistan

    SplitPakistan BANNED BANNED

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    50 pak fa and 200 fgfa
     
  2. Take-iT

    Take-iT BANNED BANNED

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    where will you station these planes because stealth aircraft is not to be stationed out and need extensive maintenance the IAF is yet to make these special changes which shows that the time of induction is not the frontrunner in the minds of the IAF
     
  3. Dilemma

    Dilemma Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    1) As of now, the IAF is upgrading/modernizing and building new ones to support state-of-the-art planes.

    2) Forget FGFA, even PAKFA will be inducted in the VVS (Russian Air Force) after 2015 only if everything goes according to schedule, which seems very unlikely looking at the Russian's track record.

    3) Considering 2018-2020 as the year of induction for the FGFA, it is till long time away. Before that, we have to think about where the MMRCA aircraft will be stationed (mostly north-east, that's what some news reports say).
     
  4. Take-iT

    Take-iT BANNED BANNED

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    1. what the IAF is upgrading i know it they are doing this to incorporate the mrca advanced bases like bhatinda also is being upgraded to current standards but you fail ti understand the requirements of a 5th gen fighter it needs a 36 hour maintenance post a 2 hour flight for which extensive arrangements needs to be further done the current upgrades are not enough , most of the upgrades in the southern air command is for the LCA the easten air command upgrades is to house the MKIS and the westernern upgrades are to incorporate the big transporters that will arrive
    none of the upgrades match the incorporation of the FGFA so its far off from what you are saying.


    2.Do not equate russia generally and pakfa becuase they have seen the f-35 program and also their idea of followup is similar to the BM program where they induct while they develop so look at 2013 they will have a couple of pakfa flown by the regulars and continue the input to further develop the prokect they have made an extensive plan which is much better implemented looking at the things they are going to fly the new pakfas with old engines as early as 2013-14 and develop the final program at a latter date u will get the idea if u follow the BM program closely so what u are saying is not true


    3. I dont trust the news reports because i get the information from the horse itself the mrca is the reason for the upgrades and majority will be based on central bases than advanced pnes because MKIs are based in advanced bases on the NE



    IMPORTANT :- THE CGI pictures of the pakfa that you posted 3 posts above if you made those then a suggestion remove the probe from the nose of the flight because an ordinary man doesnt know probes are only during test flights final product will not have the probes.
     
  5. Dilemma

    Dilemma Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    How the hell do you know that it takes 36 hours of maintenance for 2hrs of flight?! The facts you are quoting from is of the F-22 and NOT the PAKFA. And also, the reason behind that is the RAM coating. It has nothing to do with infrastructure (maybe it does, but not completely). Moreover, the PAKFA is still a prototype as of yet. We need to see what happens after they induct it.

    1) Please use some punctuation next time. It helps others understand you better.

    2) About Russian equipment, I was saying this in comparison to the Gorshkov delay. Not to mention, almost none of Indian/JV programs are done on time.

    If the MKIs are based in NE that means the MMRCA are not going to be based there?! I don't get your logic and to be frank, I don't get what you're saying.

    Its better you learn something before you talk. Even I'm learning.

    The probe thing you're talking about is an internal IRST (Infrared Search and Track) sensor. It's on the MKIs, Mig 29s, Typhoons, F-16 Block 60s and Rafales.
     
  6. Take-iT

    Take-iT BANNED BANNED

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    Ok in the reverse order i will try and explain my point, i know the mkis have it and i am sure the YF-22 had it but for a 5th genfighter the probe will be non existent you can confirm this yourself if i am wrong the probe is there on all prototypes and test flights to eaplin my point i give below the flying types of the following aircrafts that you said.

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    this is the flying prototype of the rafale.

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    this is the eurofighter you can see yourself.
    it has been stressed many times that the probe on the pakfa is temporary and the final version wont have that i may be wrong as i am not the one manufacturing or linked to the pakfa i said what i learnt and not just bla bla.
















    here are the eastern command tell me where does mrca falls into these. please be kind enough to specify which base which sqdrm will have your mrca winner in the eastern sector.

    No. 8 Squadron - SU30MKI
    No. 20 Squadron - Su30mki
    No. 22 Squadron - mig27 not to be upgraded soon
    No. 30 Squadron - SU30MKI tezpur already raised now
    no41,43,49 sqdrms :- 43 has c-47 dakota ,49- an32 transportcraft
    no52 has kiran II as of now with replaced with trainers
    110-MI-8
    118-MI8
    128 - MI17
    129 MI-17
    222 sqdrm has mig27 not to be replaced now
    142 chetak sqdrm

    now tell me which sqdrm you are saying in the eastern and northeastern will have your mrca winners all the exixting ones are having su30 as the upgrade all these bases are under the eastern air-command see what i posted i told mrca will be in central air command see and verify yourself rather than listening to news reports who dosent have any idea.



    i will reply to your other two points because they also need to be clarified and cleared.
     
  7. Take-iT

    Take-iT BANNED BANNED

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    as i said before i am not developer of the pakfa so what i learnt is that any fifth gen plane with RAM or without will need 14 times the flying hour maintenence and this what the engineers say , the figures i said was of F-22 because its the only operational one it may vary up and down but its same for all the 5th gen it needs extensive maintenance anyway and current facilities are not in line with it u can ask this to any engineering staff or maintenance staff
     
  8. Take-iT

    Take-iT BANNED BANNED

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    Finally the question of the aircraft carrier - its a capitalist propaganda to undermine the deal and the indian media picks up on it without any basis, the shipbuilding industry in russia was is tatters it still is very poor state many of the soviet major numbered were closed down the state reached such an instance that an SOS was sent to india for help. the delegation over the issue held talks since 1996 the ship was offered free to india the original price was taken to just make it workable condition and the money could be given to the workers to stop the major Sevmash yard from breakdown and closure

    Tell me all those media guys who blame russia without knowing, in the 90s which capitalist country was willing to give to india an aircraft carrier at less then 1 billion the deal was combined with some mig jets as mig also was in danger. this helped yeltsin at that time. india bargained to get additional help for the ATV project and nuclear submarines which none of these media guys explain , the prime minister himself tanked the russian help for the atv during its launch earlier this year ,the mig29k with this order was supplied before time how how is the deal deferred its a part of the deal that delayed the deal was a 3 way deal.
    as the navy saw potential they wanted to make the craft with additional features and then with the increase in yearly defence inflation of 8 percent; the price went far beyond thats projected.

    till today the ship is coming for free its the marksup and features thats being added is costing india ask the western friends if ever they will supply a carrier for that price and also without strings attached.

    if u had been to russia and seen the Yantar,severmenaya , amur yards during that time u would have understood the delay till today on yantar yard labour is hard to find even if you pay its very difficult to arrange the things. whose blame is it indian officials saw all the condition from 1996 to 2004 they knew that that place under no condition could supply the ship in 4 years time even with double the money still they took the gamble they did it deliberately because at that point in time what they were getting was not offered by anybody around and its anyways a win win for india , try and understand the practically even if putin would have flown plane loads of labourers from indian to the yard he could not have done anything the industry was tattered not just affected but it crashed to a terrible state then image the slump and recession of 1998 and the devaluation of the rouble corresponding that time you will understand the situation.
    why dosent the indian navy ever open its mouth against the deal because they know they got a beast of a deal the deal was received with criticism from australian navy during 2004 so u can very well understand the significance of such a thing in the indian ocean for the navy.

    dont blame it on the media they dont calculate 2+2 because they are fed with the $$$ from the west
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  9. Dilemma

    Dilemma Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    1) IRST was added on the Rafale and the Eurofighter in the later tranches(blocks). It has nothing to do with testing.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    2) About the F-22, get me one single image of the YF-22 with the probe that you were talking about. The F-22 never had an internal IRST and the USAF is contemplating on getting one in the next upgrade. Whenever you claim something, you have to back it up.

    3) About the place where the MMRCA planes are going to be stationed, heres my proof. Atleast, I've something.
    http://www.bharatmilitary.com/forum...deployed-face-chinese-threat-north-east-1114/
    When the MMRCA planes starting arriving, they will replace some MKI squadrons but not all of them. Moreover, I never said that all of the MMRCA aircraft are going to be stationed there.

    4) You're contradicting yourself when you say you're not the developer of PAKFA but still know how much maintenance it requires. And also, you end up comparing the F-22 to the PAKFA instead of posting solid facts about the PAKFA. You're using the F-22 as a guidelines to judge the PAKFA which is totally wrong.
     
  10. Take-iT

    Take-iT BANNED BANNED

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    i am not talking about the IRST probe that you highlighted in the picture the probe at the end of the nose the nossle the spike on the pakfa.

    about mrca in the northeast i gave you each and every sqdrm detail please specify which sqdrm they will replace as you are vague and going by media reports the hard facts is clear the barieley , jorhat bases are confiemed su30mki bases and will not be replaced you should know that IAF dosent replace the fighter stationed so easily and kalaikunda mig27 i doubt they will replace soon with mrca all your assumption sis based on media reports than facts.

    ok see my post i told surely the yf22 would have had that probe since the flight tests since the probe in question u are getting me wrong uoi are pointing to the pakfa OLS i think i am talking about the end nossle.

    it does not need to be an expert to say that a new generation of planes will require a whole new set of parameters to maintain i have had discussions with maintenance staff who grumbled about the lack of facilities even now to properly maintain the stuff and now with pakfa comming in the future extensive arrangements must be made that was a simple point
     
  11. rahul

    rahul FULL MEMBER

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    A very good article on PAK-FA:

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  12. Vce Rysi

    Vce Rysi REGISTERED

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    Not necessarily. It depends on how many changes there were and how many technical difficulties they had. The EF2000 had been in development since the 80's, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is a better design.
     
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  13. RoYaN

    RoYaN Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Secret the is Russians don't test all the components of a aircraft on the new platform but test them on specific test beds, many components which go in to a new Russian fighter are tested on already active platforms ,once the sub systems are tested and clearance is given and they are integrated with the main aircraft and further testing takes place so the testing time for the main aircraft is mush lees when compared to the American/European aircrafts.

    The S-37(Su-47) served as a test bed for many things which will find their way on to the PAKFA .
    The internal weapons bay was one of those sub systems which was tested first on S-37 and is now integrated into the PAKFA and further testing is going on.
     
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  14. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    An old presentation I think I should share. Its 74 pages long so strap on the seat belt friends.


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  15. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
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