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PAK-FA 5th Generation Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Need more time on 5th-gen fighter jet, India tells Russia


    Ajay Banerjee


    Tribune News Service

    New Delhi, October 31

    In the latest round of India-Russia military talks, New Delhi has told Moscow that it will need more time to examine the proposal to jointly develop the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).


    The FGFA, which is under development, is very much a future requirement for the Indian Air Force (IAF) upgrade programme, the Russian side was conveyed last week at a meeting between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Russian counterpart General Sergey Shoigu in New Delhi.


    “We have asked for greater details with regards to the work India will be doing in manufacturing the plane and also technology transfer,” a top source in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) said. India and Russia have been working to conclude a pending agreement to co-develop the FGFA.


    New Delhi has told Moscow that it wants a new engine and the plane must have super cruise ability, a 360-degree radar ability, added stealth features among 40-odd other India-specific modifications over the existing prototype. A plane called the ‘T-50’ built by the Russians under the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme as FGFA is already being tested as prototype in Russia.


    The two countries have to sign a research and development (R&D) contract for the FGFA, but before that the “wrinkles have to be ironed out”. The signing of a R&D contract has been pending since June 2013 when the preliminary design contract (PDC), which detailed out the fighter’s configuration, was completed. The PDC cost $295 million (Rs 1,500 crore approximately).


    The IAF has said AL-41F1 engines being used on the existing T-50 were just upgraded versions of the Sukhoi-30MKI’s AL-31FP engines and it would need a new engine. Also, the MoD wants that the R&D contract should have an adequate share of work done in India, thus allowing Indian engineers to learn the art of designing and making a plane. The R&D contract is estimated to be for $4 billion (around Rs 26,000 crore). The R&D process and final development of the plane is expected to be spread across seven years.


    An aircraft such as the FGFA would be ideal for missions deep into the enemy territory. The IAF is now operating at its lowest combat strength in more than a decade. It is down to 33 squadrons (some 16-18 planes in each) as against a mandated 42 squadrons needed for simultaneous and collusive two-front war scenario with Pakistan and China.

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...en-fighter-jet-india-tells-russia/317186.html
     
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  2. Bregs

    Bregs 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Seeing the depletion of our sq strength along with tensions on border, lingering on of MMRCA with single engine fighter in focus now. The India will be compelled to but in next 2-3 yrs the Russian version of PAK-FA till then the indian desired new engine and other features might be ready for testing

    The Customized version OF FGFA IAF is asking for wont be ready before 2023-2025
     
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  3. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I seriously doubt involvement of some pro-western Military weapons dalal in this deal on our side, I mean they are stuck at the same work share, old engine, Stealth feature,etc talks from past 3-4 years now.

    I mean people who are responsible for R&D on our side have they even drawn the rough picture of FGFA on any rough sheet yet or not, or they are just sucking money from government in the name of research and development. $ 295 million spent and we don't get to see a wind tunnel model yet, not even a CAD image has been shared with FGFA name by HAL. And they are using the "under development" from last 2-3 years, I mean even AMCA has a confirmed(almost) wind tunnel model displayed at ADA lab.
     
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  4. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What
    Russia's priority is not to build FGFA. Their priority is to build PAK-FA which could take on F-22s and F-35s.

    PAK-FA is currently being tested using AL-41F1 which is on SU-35s. Next year they plan test PAK-FA with the izdeliye 30 engine.

    India would commit to the FGFA project once the results of PAK-FA with izdeliye 30 engine are known.

    Once India signs the IGA for PAK-FAs, Russia would sign the contract for S-400s.
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    There's no relation.
     
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  6. jha

    jha 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Good to see this. It seems, we have learnt our lessons and are not ready to sign half-baked deals. Watertight agreements is must while dealing with Russians.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Agree. But I thought they had already done this bit.
     
  8. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The agreement was on the JV price but the contract signing is contingent upon the results of the PAK-FA test with the izdeliye 30 engine.

    This would be targeted for 2017 Indo-Russian summit meeting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What? No. The plan is to get this signed this financial year. Type 30 is still more than 2 years away.

    The article talks about getting more clarity on production of the aircraft in India.
     
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  10. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    PAK-FA Testing with izdeliye 30 engine would start by October, 2017. IGA need not wait until izdeliye 30 engine . IGA would be signed between October-December, 2017.
     
  11. dadeechi

    dadeechi Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Let's see what happens...
     
  12. nik141993

    nik141993 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    final prototype
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  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  14. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    It's a perfectly legitimate position the Indian side is taking. How can they commit >$30bn to a project where some of the most basic aspects haven't even been worked out? As has been noted above,after being burnt many times, it seems India has finally learnt its lesson and is insisting on iron clad contracts clearly outlining the requirements of all parties involved. Going in half baked and committing vast sums and resources will only lead to diastase, especially when dealing with the slippery Russians.

    They are themselves going very slow on the PAK-FA development so india has the time to get all of the modalities sorted out before final contract signing. This is a sign of a confident and sensible nation.

    First the Rafale deal (expectionally robust agreement) and now this, good to see.
     
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  15. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    It's not about the PakFa's credibility or the deal, but about the sanctioned 295 million bucks I am talking about, and what is achievement of the team which was assigned this job ?

    Coz I am still reading articles about the deal being signed for work share, that means from last 3-4 years we havn't even started the cutting edge work on the jet and just wasting our time on the deal.

    PakFa definitely is no where close to F22 in terms of stealth feature, Sukhoi still has no solution for the open engine metallic body and the straight intake. Even if the deal gets signed the jet still doesn't satisfy the main 5th gen jet requirement i.e. Stealth.
     

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