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PAK-FA 5th Generation Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    India has not transferred any money apart from initial $2 or $20 million (I don't know exact figure but it is between these 2 figures) due to objections raised by IAF (since Russia didn't allowed IAF pilots to fly PAKFA) so chill India has sunk nothing.

    Does F-16 or F-18 cost $60 - $80 million for life cycle cost of 40 years which includes spares, pilot training, fuel costs, TOT, 50% OFF SETS, 2 Air BASES. AND ABOVE ALL NO KILL SWITCHES. If so then we would definitely go for those, if not then don't spread your bull shit over here.

    Fact is that vintage F-16 costs more than Rafale in life cycle costs.
     
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  2. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Off sets are just another name for bribes that go into companies owned by friends of the political party in power. Also what you are promised is not what you are going to get, France is not going to support the IAF for eternity. A little research will show you what India has so far paid for the PAK FA and intends to pay and its in the billions.
     
  3. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    CAG should intervene on this project and should audit the money spent in FGFA development, because there is not a single significant development on this front and we are already hearing reports about India spending some millions for R&D.

    This project is going nowhere, I am afraid to say this, but FGFA 1st TD looks at least 8-9 years away from being reality.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Worst case scenario is, we get another MKI deal, meaning a customized Russian version with licence production right's. Even that would be crucial to secure India against any Chinese or Pakistani threats. So no matter what, we have to get it!

    The problem however is, that we ask for more than Russia might be able or is willing to deliver and that our industrial contribution is that low, that we can't do much more than funding.
    So it needs to be seen what can be negotiated and how fast our industry can improve, but Russias financial capability might be a greater concern in this project.
     
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  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Russia Complies with FGFA Development Program
    (Source: TASS-Defense; published March 23, 2017)
    MOSCOW --- The Russian-Indian fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) is being developed in accordance with the program and Russia is fulfilling its obligations, President of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Yuri Slyusar told TASS.

    Earlier, the Times of India newspaper reported with reference to a high-ranking official in the Indian Defense Ministry that India was ready to continue developing the fifth-generation fighter aircraft jointly with Russia only if all technologies were transferred. Also, the project is expected to help India develop its own new-generation plane.

    Some media outlets reported later that the project might be postponed due to Russia’s unwillingness to transfer all technologies.

    "There were such media reports but it is difficult for me to comment on them as I do not know what they are based on," Slyusar said.

    "We are complying with the program and fulfilling all our obligations," he added.

    In 2007, Russia and India signed an agreement to jointly develop the fifth-generation fighter aircraft.

    The Russian-Indian plane is being developed on the basis of Russia’s fifth-generation T-50 PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) fighter jet in line with India’s requirements specification.

    In particular, a two-seat version of the plane will be developed and an advanced engine with increased thrust will be installed under the program.

    India’s Air Force is expected to be the first customer of the fighter jet and then the plane will be delivered to third countries.
     
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  6. RMLOVER

    RMLOVER 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Will India, Russia Co-Develop a New 5th Stealth Fighter?
    India and Russia have failed to resolve their differences so far and the joint project appears to be going nowhere.

    http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/will-india-russia-co-develop-a-new-5th-stealth-fighter/

    By Franz-Stefan Gady
    March 25, 2017

    India and Russia have failed to make progress on one of their most prestigious defense deals—the co-development and production of the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF).

    The most recent stumbling block to a successful continuation of the project has been Russia’s unwillingness to share sensitive aircraft technology with India. New Delhi is demanding a full-scale transfer of technology in order to boost India’s domestic fighter-manufacturing capabilities.

    In September 2016, both sides agreed to a detailed work-sharing agreement. “From a preliminary document that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared,” an unidentified Indian defense official was quoted at the time. However, India has so far not signed the agreement. “We are awaiting the Indian side’s decision on the FGFA project. We are fulfilling our obligations and are prepared to continue work,” a Russian defense industry official told TASS news agency on March 22.

    Before moving on, India wants a guarantee that Russia will be able to upgrade the fighter jet in the future without Russian support, which would require Moscow sharing source codes (sensitive computer code that controls the fighter jet’s various systems — the key to an aircraft’s electronic brains). In addition, the FGFA should directly support India’s advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) program—a separate Indian fifth generation fighter project. “This is mandatory,” an Indian defense source told The Times of India on March 9.

    As I explained previously:

    The FGFA/PMF project has been hampered by repeated delays since the start of the project in 2007 and the signing of a preliminary $295 million design contract in 2010. In 2015, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar decided to make one last push toward reaching an agreement with Russia.

    Furthermore, I noted:

    Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered. After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities.

    Another reason for the repeated delays were disputes over the number of aircraft to be produced:

    Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $ 3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

    As always, the devil remains in the details and the joint project remains stalled for the moment. The Russian version of the new fifth generation fighter jet appears to be doing better. According to Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov, the Russian Air Force could start receiving the first serial-produced T-50 (PAK FA) multi-role fighter jet already in 2018. However, Russian defense officials admit that Russia has so far failed to develop a new engine, called Product 30, for the aircraft, which could potentially push back the induction date.
     
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  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    A friend knowing chineese media tell me that in these media it is reported more and more that PAK-FA will be ended soon! Any news?
     
  8. ReddyMan

    ReddyMan FULL MEMBER

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    Then the project is dead.

    IAF cancelled the MTA over engine issues as well.
     
  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  10. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    No such thing. The FGFA contract is under review, Ka-226 negotiations are also coming to a close, so negative media reports are expected at this time. PAK FA and FGFA are progressing as usual.

    Don't believe the media. You saw how it was with Rafale deal also. It's no different with FGFA or any other project. Only believe official sources.

    FGFA negotiations have finished. The file went to Parrikar in December or Jan, and is under review. The report is expected this month.
     
  11. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    MTA was no necessity, FGFA is. So don't expect FGFA getting cancelled, but it will take time.
     
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  12. ReddyMan

    ReddyMan FULL MEMBER

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    FGFA is a paper plane with less real development than AMCA, especially if they complete a 1:1 scale model this year with RCS tests.

    PakFA, from which FGFA is supposed to be derived from, has not been integrated with a single 5th generation technology yet. Neither engines, radar, nor weapons. All it currently has are internal weapons bays, nothing else to qualify it as a 5th generation fighter.

    Everything is behind schedule and Russia has already been cutting their defense budget on top of it. This will be another Admiral Gorshkov if India agrees to a JV, better to drop it and focus on AMCA.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Pak Fa certainly not, because it's key for Russias future. If FGFA goes on, is another issue
     
  14. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Panel on Indo-Russian fighter gets an extension
    Published April 9, 2017
    SOURCE: THE HINDU

    [​IMG]

    A high-power, five-member committee is closely examining the multi-billion dollar programme for the joint development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia. The committee will submit its report by May 15, a senior official told The Hindu.

    The committee was set up in January this year with a three-month term and was tasked with taking a detailed look at the cost and the extent of technology transfer that India would get. Its term has now been extended by a month, the official said.

    Among several issues, the committee will take a critical look at the actual technology transfer that India stands to gain thorough the deal.

    “We are assembling 272 Su-30s, which have only 56% indigenous content. In the FGFA, we should get full technology, not just the know-how but also the know-why so that we can do future upgrades and support here,” he said.

    No final contract

    In 2010 India and Russia signed a preliminary design agreement to jointly produce the FGFA for use by both countries, after which each invested $295 million for preliminary design which was completed in 2013.

    Since then, despite several rounds of discussions, the two countries have failed to reach an understanding over the final contract.

    Source
     
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  15. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    We all know we will never get 'full' tech transfer. But this should be the way we approach a business deal.
     
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