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Pakistan Announces 5th-gen Fighter and Male UAV Programs

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Agent_47, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Then go there. You have the same mentality.

    You can praise JF-17 all you want.

    It's a sitting duck for our frontline fighters at Halwara.
     
    Gessler and GSLV Mk III like this.
  2. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You can't disprove the truth...

    Now tell me more about Pakistani developed diesel engines in the 60s.

    An average Brit wouldn't be able to name one Pakistani brand, are this guy claims he knows about Pak's industry in the 60s....false flagger.
     
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  3. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Naah JF 17 is totally pindi-genous.
     
  4. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Just because JF-17 is superior to the aircraft it replaces F-7 does not change the scenario via-vis India when we are deploying MIG-29SMT and SU-30MKI with Mig 21 BISON acting as R-77 missile carriers.

    Only reason they are proud of FC-1/JF-17 is because it is in service whereas the Tejas which is not going to be deploying out of South India for a decade is not properly in service which is irrelevant.

    Compare FC-1 to what we have in IAF's Western Air Command, Central Air Command and most importantly South Western Air Command.

    A sortie of 3 Mig 21 loadout 2 R77 + 2 R73 each with 2 Mig29 SMT intercepts sortie of 6 FC-1 it is going to be a cakewalk for IAF.
     
  5. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    im still there, this forum is the sanest indian one.
    im not praising it just correcting a few misconceptions.

    i got this from pdf so it was in front of my face, so to speak. during the 60's they had difficulties with the imported engines from the uk as they had tenancies to overheat quickly as they were not designed for the intense heat. they basically redeveloped it so such incident wont accrue. it was done by a govenrment firm but was shut down in the late 60's.
     
  6. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Captain FULL MEMBER

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    :lol: It's called development ? Nice joke. It's called 'tropicalisation'.
     
  7. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Such as claiming that Su 30 is assembled in India like IKEA furniture ? :lol:
     
  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    Well between Mig35 and J31, there is quiet a bit of commonality, due to its configuration, weight, power-plant.

    Both are single seat, similar cockpit area.

    Same engine so , same volumetric air delivery, so same volume for internal ducts.

    Same engine so same sized gearbox, generator, and fadec harness.

    Similar thrust, and size so similar sized actuators, servos, hydraulic lines, pressure regulators and control valves.

    Fly by wire, so similar control harness.

    For the weight and power, most likely approach speeds if anything will be poorer than the Mig35, thus pretty much same or heavier undercarriage.

    Given similar SFC o the engines, for j31 to hit 1250km range, it would need to carry the same 6.5 tonnes of fuel that Mig35 carries. Mig does that throughout its fesealge unhindered by weapons bay, and for CG most of the fuel is located in main fuselage. J31 will have to do the same in it's fusealge, where it also needs to make room for 2 tonnes of munitions in the internal bay. I highly doubt it can find 6.5 tons in there.

    Now the question of drag, I cant answer that, I don't know what are the flight characteristics of the J31 to begin with..Lets not forget stealth shaping for radar reflection also increases drag.
     
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  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Do you have a source for the Mig-35's 6.5T fuel capacity? The general assumption is 4560Kg, as it is for the Mig-29M.

    You forget that the J-31 has a far superior fuselage and inlet design which allows it to carry far more fuel and an IWB.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The J-31 has more internal volume than the F-15C. I suppose it has at least twice the internal volume as the Mig-29M.
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    No they haven't since J31 is a complete new design, that has nothing to do with the Mig, be it the wings, the fuselage, the location of the engines..., but all that changes the internal design and how much fuel the fighter can carry. The design is the key here, not the engines, weight or FBW...
    The latest F16s and a Rafale have similar weights and size as well, doesn't mean that they are anywhere similar in design or have similar internal fuel capacity right?

    Stealth design increases drag only compared to a clean Mig, but you have to compare both with similar loads of course, if you want to compare the range.
     
  11. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    They would be close if F16's flew with twin snecma, needed the same CFM, had the exact same SFC, and had the same cabin config, and had the same Weight and external dimensions. J31 is not radically different structurally, design may be different but I am sorry I do not buy 6.5 tons of internal fuel or drag reduction giving it 1250km radii.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Both SH and J-31 have a MTOW of 30T and SH carries 6.7T of fuel.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Empty weight - F16 B70 9.2t, Rafale 9.5t
    Mtow - 21t vs 24t
    L - 15.03m vs 15.27m
    H - 5.09m vs 5.24m
    W - 10m vs 10.8

    [​IMG]

    More than similar size and weight and according to your logic, they then must have similar fuel capacity as well, but...

    Internal fuel - F16 2.6t vs 4.7t Rafale!

    That's the difference the design makes, no matter how similar external specs are.
     
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  14. arbit

    arbit 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    This blue marlin is like that 'waz' guy from another forum. - My folks might be from pakistan, but hey I'm a brit! :)
     
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  15. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    Well then the j31 fares worse at full load, as it carries 6tons on munition externally. Now you have Steath + External Drag. I presume J31 would fare worse here.
    With min load, you would compare internally equipped J31 with a Mig with 2tons on external station. so you would compare sparsely loaded mig's drag against stealth drag.

    I repeat, Internal fuel on both would be similar if F16 and rafale had the
    1> exact same engine config, i.e twin m88 or single f100
    2> exact same SFC
    3>exact same transmission
    4>Exact same CFM requirement
    5> similar structural config.

    Not just because because they are of similar size and weight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017

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