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Pakistan Announces 5th-gen Fighter and Male UAV Programs

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Agent_47, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    why are you cherry picking just the weight from my post. Not in a single post have I said that. Please read my contention in it's entirety.
     
  2. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    comparing me to waz is the nicest thing any one has said to me:cray:
    fortunately my parents are not for pakistan but lancaster but I've been to pakistan, and india too.
     
  3. arbit

    arbit 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Lol okay! If this is the nicest thing anyone has said about you.. then.. great! Happy to help!

    I am also happy that your parents aren't from pakistan (fortunately) then Bangladesh? SriLanka maybe? Or you are perhaps a caucasian and look upto to waz :angel: ; not to mention your visit list includes Pakistan and India! Maybe you could just answer in brief and then we would all go on with the topic at hand.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Not really, because you have to compare the maximum internal fuel and weapon load, to a similar load of the Mig, which means 2t weapons + additonal external fuel to make up for the shortage of internal fuel. In any CAP or CAS role a none stealth fighter has to carry external fuel tanks to have a useful range or endurance. A stealth fighter can (if the mission is not risky), but is designed to not use external loads. So no matter if it's clean design adds drag, it's still better than external payloads.

    And that still remains to be factually wrong, because none of these things have anything to do with the number or capacity of the internal fuel tanks. If the F16 would have 2 engines, it still would carry less fuel than the Rafale, because the delta wings contributes the most to the internal fuel capacity!
    Stealth design is not only baswd external shaping, but also on maximising internal space.
     
  5. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    no, my parents are english, reason why im on defence forums im into defence stuff, (i go to airshows).
    i went to pakistan upon invitation to a wedding
    i wend to india with a friend, because i had nothing to do at the time, and get a comparison
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    You claimed the Mig-35, which is basically a Mig-29M, has 6.5T of fuel. I would like a source for that.

    Note that the MTOW of the Mig-29K, which was based on the Mig-29M, is 24.5T. How can it carry 6.5T of fuel if its empty weight is 14.5T and total payload is only 10T?

    Mig-35: 4.5T of fuel. RoA = 850Km
    J-31: ~6T of fuel. RoA = 1250Km
     
  7. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    do me a favour ramdomradio, delete my irrelevant posts as i cant as there too old.
    regards
     
  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    Mig35 has a dry of 11T (not 14.5T ), and loaded Weight of 17.5T.
    upload_2017-7-12_20-40-50.png


    Russians publish range estimates on clean config compared to Americans with a avg loadout.
    Given comparison between chinese j11 and su27, chinese utilize the russian methodology of clean config for range estimates too.

    Empty weight = 11T, Clean Config Weight = 17.5T, 6.5T of Fuel. Pay load of 7 Tons.

    http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/Mig-35_a000357007.aspx
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Those figures for the Mig-35 are completely wrong. The Mig-35's empty weight is not 11T. Even the Mig-29M weighs 13.5T and the Mig-35 is supposed to be heavier. The Mig-29K is also 14.5T.

    The Mig-29A's empty weight is 11T.

    Western sources are not a source for Russian and Chinese jets.
     
  10. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    Cant get more russian than Rosoboron

    upload_2017-7-12_23-40-29.png



    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/mig-35/

    Next :

    "The MiG-35, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F), is a highly maneuverable single-seat fighter air superiority fighter. Although the MiG-35's design is similar to that of the MiG-29, the new fighter has increased the internal fuel load by 50%, and the ordnance load by over 100%."

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-35-design.htm

    Well , Mig29's Dry weight is most likely the same, if anything the clean Weight has increased due to additional fuel tank behind the cockpit.


    "Though basically an upgraded version of the MiG-29K, the MiG-35 has a number of features such as increased internal fuel capacity....."


    http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...ka/Russians-unveil-MiG-35/article14717327.ece

    "The MiG-35 is a 4++ generation multipurpose fighter and is a further development of the MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 combat aircraft. The excellent aerodynamics of the MiG-29 enabled an upgrade to the electronics and propulsion equipment, a 50% increase in internal fuel capacity, and twice the combat load, up to 6,500 kg."
    http://oblik.msk.ru/en/news/3962/

    Even UAC;s press release on K/KUB states increased Internal Fuel
    https://ok.ru/video/228055450927

    "Mr Slyusar told reporters covering the event, “We have increased the number of hard and bay points from six to eight, which allows use of both current and prospective types of weapons, including laser weapons.”

    All the systems of the MiG-35 aircraft have been developed and produced domestically in Russia, including helmet-mounted target designation systems.

    Thanks to larger internal fuel tanks, its range has been increased by 50 percent,. Then there is provision for both buddy refuelling, and by mid-air tankers. An extra fuel tank module can be fitted in the rear pilot’s cabin."
    http://www.indiastrategic.in/2017/02/06/russia-to-offer-its-latest-mig-35-fighter-to-india/



    Common theme being 50% increase in Mig35's internal fuel , 4.5t x 1.5 = 6.75T. My original Contention.
    Now it up to you, if you want to pay heed to Kret, UAC, and Yury Slyusar himself.

    If all of this not adequate. pcik a number that you believe and go with it. :)
     
    Sancho and Agent_47 like this.
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    You got the links right, but you got your assumptions wrong.

    You see you missed something very important in your quotes.

    "The MiG-35 is a 4++ generation multipurpose fighter and is a further development of the MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 combat aircraft. The excellent aerodynamics of the MiG-29 enabled an upgrade to the electronics and propulsion equipment, a 50% increase in internal fuel capacity, and twice the combat load, up to 6,500 kg."

    You missed such a crucial clue.

    Mig-29A:
    Fuel = 3.5T
    Combat load = 3.5T

    Mig-29M/K/Mig-35:
    Fuel = 4.5T
    Combat load = 6.5T

    The Mig-35 doesn't have a 6T fuel load and 12T weapons load.
     
  12. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    3.5x 1.5= ? pretty sure it's not 4.5...

    What is the fuel tank config for a J31?

    If J31 and Mig35 has similar ranges, would they need similar quantity of fuel given they share same exact engines?
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Or you can say the Mig-35 carries 5T of fuel, a 500Kg upgrade over the Mig-29M makes sense. Not 1.5T.

    The J-31 can get away with lesser fuel for every Km.
     
  14. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    How?
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Same advantage the AMCA will have over the Mig-35, superior design.
     

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