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Pakistan Claims First Submarine Launched Nuclear Missile Test...

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Ripcord322, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    If they are really doing R&D & failing & succeeding like us.
    I don't think we need to worry.

    We already make most components required.
     
  2. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    chin ke mal pe apna sticker chipkana h bs
     
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  3. Aqwoyk

    Aqwoyk Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    PKS also said that it is a 100 percent chini maaal and fired from shang class sub
     
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  4. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    The Babur-3 SLCM Bakwaas Exposed
    On January 9, 2017 the following press-release was released by Pakistan’s ISPR (and curiously not from the PN):

    https://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-press_release&id=3672#pr_link3672

    From the contents of this press-release, it can safely be deduced that the cruise missile, a member of the Hatf-7 family, has a wingspan of 3.1 metres, length of 6 metres, diameter of 0.514 metres, and a mass of 900kg. Range of this SLCM has been claimed to be 450km, although it can attain 600km when carrying a 300kg warhead. The press-release’s contents need to be dissected, since they provide some pretty interesting insights into what is really at play here.
    [​IMG]
    Firstly, it has been claimed that the maiden test-firing of the Babur-3 SLCM was conducted from an underwater, mobile platform that was located at an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean. This test-firing, hailed as a 100% successful effort, was witnessed by the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, DG Strategic Plans Division (SPD) Lieutenant General Mazhar Jamil, and the Commander Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC). Notable absentees from this event were the PN’s Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah, and Shahid Nabeel, Chairman of the National Engineering and Science Commission (NESCOM)—a state-owned entity that owns the National Defence Complex, the industrial entity that has reportedly the Hatf-7/Babur family of cruise missiles. Short video-clips of this alleged test-firing () showed a cruise missiles breaking a water surface and adopting a shallow trajectory in elevation (meaning it was launched from a torpedo-tube and not a VLS cell), then cruising over land and finally hitting its designated target area somewhere in the vicinity of Balochistan’s Ras Koh mountain range.
    [​IMG]
    Now, if the Babur-3 was indeed launched from a SSK belonging to the PN—and the PN has only three Agosta 90B and two Agosta 70B SSKs all of which are equipped with the THALES-supplied SUBTICS combat management system—then the fire-control system servers required for computing and transmitting the firing solution for/to the encapsulated Babur-3 would have to be integrated with the SUBTICS and the 533mm torpedo launch-tubes. This is an impossible task, given the fact that THALES does not share the operating source-codes of thre SUBTICS’ fire-control algorithms with anyone. Secondly, for the Babur-3 to have been fired from anywhere in the IOR and for the SLCM to reach Baluchistan, NOTAMs would have had to be issued at least 10 days in advance for clearly identifying the flight-path trajectory and cruising altitude for both airmen and merchant mariners. This was NOT done. Thirdly, as the video-clip shows, the test-firing was initiated from a submerged vehicle in clam waters (i.e. shallow waters), following which the SLCM cruised over a vast landmass, meaning the Babur-3’s entire flightpath was well within Pakistan’s territorial; waters and airspace. Lastly, the PN does not possess any naval vessel equipped with long-range precision-tracking radars, which is a prerequisite for any navy that is involved in test-firing land-attack cruise missiles. Therefore, all this brings us to only one conceivable conclusion:
    [​IMG]
    The test-firing was initiated from a submerged Type 093 Shang-class SSN (that had left its homeport at Yulin in Hainan Island in the third week of December 2016) located well inside Pakistan’s territorial waters, and the SLCM fired was of 100% Chinese origin. Furthermore, this SLCM’s westward flightpath first along Pakistan’s coastline and then into western Baluchistan was ideal for the NESCOM’s missile trajectory-tracking sensors located at the Sonmiani Flight Test Range in Sindh province. All this also ties in well with the Naval Strategic Force Command’s inauguration in 2012, and the commissioning of a VLF communications facility—PNS Hameed—on November 15, 2016.
    [​IMG]

    Courtesy Prasun http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/01/a-not-so-silent-war.html

    and

    upload_2017-1-10_12-20-6.png
    http://indiandefence.com/threads/pa...uclear-babur-missile.57587/page-4#post-518221
     
  5. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA Could you expand on this issue as in which missiles were used etc?

    India should take up this issue with China as 450Km range violate MTCR, and China would be forced to come clean thus debunking ISPR propaganda.
     
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  6. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    MTCR is not a treaty, a non binding agreement, same like NSG. Furthur, China is not inside MTCR.

    Otherwise China violationg MTCR from Gauri to Shaheen.
     
  7. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I am not saying that MTCR could lay sanctions on China. What I am saying is that if we raise the noise, we would force China to make a statement. Either they would have to publicly state that range of missile is less than 300Km, thus exposing lies of ISPR, or they would have to accept that ISPR is telling the truth and this missile has a range of 450Km and lose face.
     
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  8. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    This must be to flame up support for the Govt of Pak, and move away from core issues ie classic change of subject!

    sorry no up to date with politics there ! .... its support for some one! :p
     
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  9. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    Why they say so? When they done nithing wrong or illegal.
     
  10. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Because they have stated that they would follow MTCR and pretend to follow MTCR. It would expose their hypocrisy or cause an embarrassment to Pakistani establishment. No concrete benefit would be there for us, except embarrassing one of our enemy.

    I see no harm in making a noise over this.
     
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  11. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    They don't care about MTCR.... They aren't members...
    This launch was perhaps a weapons demo from a Chinese submarine...

    Maybe, China is giving us a message that the more we develop a strategic deterrent against China/Pakistan...The more they will try to bring Pakistan at the same level...


    What they are saying is that....No matter how advance in weapons development we get...The Chinese will surely keep parity between Pakistan and India....by supplying similar advance weapons to Pakistan...
     
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  12. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    They would rather claim that they have nothing to do with the missile and that it was a completely indigenous development of Pakistan...

    PS : Neither Pakistan nor China is a member of MTCR...They could care less about it...

    Intelligence Agencies around the world watch this region...They know exactly who has which missiles....How many....How indigenous...How destructive... etc....

    The question is how many countries can afford to go against China for a matter that perhaps won't effect then directly....

    Eg. The Europeans wouldn't bother Poking China for weapons proliferation...given the fact that....China is one of the biggest investors in Europe....

    There is no consequence for weapons proliferation on this planet....Unless it impacts the major powers directly.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  13. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

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    And in your gloominess ,you are ignoring that India could easily play a game of arming Chinese enemy with strategic weapons. By strategic, I mean weapons which could hit China's cities and devastate their population (Ballistic missiles and maybe nukes). We could not stop them from providing conventional weapons to Pakistan, but we could draw a line in sand over providing strategic weapons as we could compete in that arena, and China would obey as India's potential to undermine China is much higher than theirs of undermining India.
     
  14. A_poster

    A_poster Captain FULL MEMBER

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    We could provide proof of Song class submarine firing that weapon. As I said that, they could care less, but why let go of an opportunity to embarrass them.
     
  15. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What country do you think will procure nuke tipped ballistic missiles or any other WMD against China.....
    IMHO....
    I don't think any country in their neighborhood would dare to cross that line....

    We might be willing to give a country 'strategic weapons' ...but they should be willing to accept it too....
     

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