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Pakistan Claims First Submarine Launched Nuclear Missile Test...

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Ripcord322, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. A_poster

    A_poster Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Vietnam comes to my mind.

    Relation between China and Vietnam have historically been worst than between Indians and Muslims. Chinese regularly sacked Dai-Viet and Champa, and have waged a 1052 year long war on Viets. The hatred between Viets and Hans is deeper and fundamental than between Indians and pakistani.

    Mongolia would have been a good candidate, but they are not strong enough to procure Ballistic missiles, and if we wanted to shadow transfer tech for BMs in guise of helping space program, we need to have started a decade ago.

    Taiwan and Japan are good candidates, except that if they want, they could easily build their own.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  2. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Time to change the Title:
    Pakistan Fakes Babur-3 SLCM Test
    @Gessler
     
  3. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I don't think Pakistan even tested it...
    I guess it was just a weapons demo from a Chinese Submarine...
    For the Pakistani Generals...
    And perhaps....A few of their personnel were involved...
    And on top of that the ISPR completely f@#$&d up in their video.....How foolish are they to have f@#$_&d up their own video...
    :lol: :lol:
     
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  4. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    When this test came out of blue I was suspicious. Pak Navy is following Pak Army footsteps in fooling the nation and lying to teeth.

    Seems like a competetion between all three wings of Pak military who can fool the nation best.
     
  5. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Psy-ops to protect Honour & Dignity
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yes. But then I subscribe to the Sun Tsu - The Supreme Art of War is to subdue the enemy without fighting. And that is what seems to be the policy of even GoI right now.
     
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  7. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Correct,
    ISPR says:
    "Babur-3 was launched from an underwater mobile platform from an undisclosed location."

    Indx TechS says:
    But my friend, fact is that you may test an undisclosed strategic weapon from a disclosed location but you can't test (disclosed or undisclosed) any type of strategic weapon from an undisclosed location.
    You have to file a NOTAM (Notification for Airmen) and a NAVAREA warning for safety of passing by boats and civil aircrafts (Cargo/Cruise Ships & Passenger Planes etc.)

    I'm I right or wrong guys?
    @R!CK @Gessler @anant_s @PARIKRAMA
    So, Pakistan had to file a NOTAM and a NAVAREA warning but Pakistan says they didn't disclose location.

    Means that test never occured.
    Further, Pakistanis say,
    "Missile was tested from an undisclosed location in Indian Ocean."
    But the target from video looks around Mountainous northeastern part of Pakistan.
    Here's a map of Asia Pacific, watch where is Pakistan and where is Indian Ocean.
    [​IMG]
    No cruise missile with just 450km range can even travel to reach Pakistan from here, living alone hitting target in mountains in more far parts of Pakistan.
    They didn't even gave a NOTAM (Notification for Airmen) and a NAVAREA warning.
    Test most likely not occurred.
     
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  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    You can blame Indians for this. Read up the Sino-Pak rapprochement beginning 1957.


    Yes. Legitimate. But then Chinese question is also there. They were paid tribute as also were tibetans, historically by the Khanates of the region. When India recognised Tibet as part of China, we effectively opened a pandora's box. One needs to read On China by Henry Kissinger to appreciate the Chinese sense of nation and national boundaries.

    And whose mistake is that? What stopped India from intervening on the side of Nasheed in 2012?

    Again whose mistake? Settlement of boundary with Nagaland by unilaterally ceding traditional Naga grazing lands to Burma post independence and increased settlement of Bangladeshis in the region including West Bengal today?

    One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. What terrorism? Where? Kashmir? That is not terrorism ... that is insurgency. Other than the garb of WoT and 'chic' terminology, anyone calling Kashmir attacks as terrorism is merely indulging in word play.

    Defending their position and successfully at it.

    Nope. Only by a delusional nation.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Pak is competing with AAPtards in spreading lies.
     
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  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I, of course, mean that IA is practicing seizing the sites and effectively neutralising Pakistani nuclear assets.
     
  11. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Does India know all the sites? Does it have the capability to effectively neutralize such hardened targets? Is it ready for the international fallout should such an adventure actually be carried out?
     
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  12. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I completely agree with VCheng here...

    I don't think we have that capability yet.....
    • I mean...How will we get in undetected.......!?
    • We don't have stealth transport (Helicopters or otherwise)...or high quality cyber/electronic warfare to shut down their air defenses remotely...
    • And their nukes will be protected like fortresses..by thousands of troops...perhaps
    • And we can never know their secret sites...the ones outside of the sharing agreements...our intel. can't know every one off their sites...
    • There is perhaps no way we can unilaterally disarm them...(Nor can they disarm us...)
    • Their sites are probably deeeeeep underground....We can't take them out by conventional missiles or bunker blasters too...
    • They are not Nigeria for god's sake....

    I didn't even take into account Reaction from China and other countries....


    PS :

    1. Even if in some wonderland....we do disarm them.....what is the guarantee that they won't develop or procure them from China again.......
    2. Disarming a Nuclear State the size of Pakistan....is simply impractical for a country with significant financial/Intelligence/Military limitations like us.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  13. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    GoI leaders in the past have rightly outlined how NFU doesn't mean you sit back and let the enemy make the first move or only wait to respond after a nuclear attack has occured. There is sufficent scope within India's NFU policy wherein a credible threat of a nuclear strike on India will be met with a pre-emptive strike of massive proportions on an enemy.

    NFU is misunderstood by many to be only reactive to a nuclear strike on India.
     
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  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    The bilateral treaty of notifications between India and Pakistan covers only BMs not CMs so no notification needed..

    Screenshot_20170110-185606.png Screenshot_20170110-185614.png Screenshot_20170110-185620.png Screenshot_20170110-185625.png Screenshot_20170110-185631.png

    Thus the test falls outside this treaty point

    Pls look from simple points like
    1. Subtics CMS
    2. Launch from water over land bodies (no experimental flight happens like that not even user trials or demonstrating quality check by nuclear forces unless explicitly stated)
    3. Use of medium to launch this missile (Agosta not available)

    Tese are more than enough to point the issues.. rest they will never admit and we will never accept..

    But I say let's consider this as another attempt to arm Pakistan by China and do what is necessary for our defence..

    Next should be coastal batteries.. exocet blk 3 200km range ones will be ordered sooner now with this launch news.. so in a way ita good.. we will be forced into modernisation overdrive..

    Anyways NMRH order will happen soon as well .. on top scorpene follow on and P75I with strategic partnership model will be expedited.. so in a way I am happy.. more such video (edited) ones should come out..
     
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  15. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Exclusive How an Indian military expert sunk Pakistan's 'fake nuclear missile test'
    Islamabad used computer-generated imagery to fabricate a 'successful launch' of Babur-III.

    @rajfortyseven

    1. On January 9, 2017 evening, DG ISPR official twitter handle @DG_ISPR put out a video congratulating the country for successful test of new submarine launched cruise missile (SLCM) Babur-3


    2. At a cursory glance, the video appears to be a successful test with missile exiting water surface, cruising along the coastline and finally hitting its target a red flag with a cliff faced background. The ISPR had done well to hide the missile's start, cruising journey and the target hit. But alas, it was to be so.

    View attachment 12956
    Missile color & speed change after 15 seconds of the video.

    3. Geo-location: The video had certain terrain detail especially from s16-24 which looked like Baluchistan mountains usually seen along the coast of Pakistan. A diligent search was made along the entire coast line of more than 500kms to locate the area but to no avail. The missile was shown cruising and hence the camera too was flying probably in a helicopter and hence the visual panoramic discrepancy was realised and the Google Earth app was tilted to give a panoramic view.

    Lo and behold, it was there about 35kms east of Ormara. It was 25°20'13"N 64°53'18"E to be precise. Once the location was identified, matching the details was not a difficult task. So a second look at the video was taken and one realised that the missile colour and speed change after 15 seconds of the video.


    View attachment 12957
    Video has been created by combining three clips s0-15, s16-24 and s24-29.

    4. Mensuration: The measuring of distances is given extreme importance in analysis of satellite imagery. On measuring distance between the geo-located area compared to video from s16-24, it was realised to the utter surprise, distance covered was approximately 15kms if not less. Considering that the flight of 8 secs covered 15kms the speed works out to be 6,750kms which is almost high hyper-sonic speed and slow as the video appears.

    5. Parallax effect: The video from s20-24 shows the red missile looking more like RA'AD than Babur almost stationary. Considering the parallax effect was beyond imagination since the camera would have had to move at higher speeds than the missile to capture it stationary which is virtually impossible.

    View attachment 12958
    Missile was flying with canister for almost 8 seconds? How is it possible?

    6. Close scrutiny: On a deeper inspection of the video, it was realised that the video actually is a fake. It has been created by combining three clips s0-15, s16-24 and s24-29. The observations made on the video could be summerised as below:-

    a. Exit from water: It is at an incline, suggesting it is not a system that can launch vertically. Meaning it is probably launched from a submerged barge and not an actual submarine.

    b. The SLBMs normally have cavitation caps to avoid cavitating effect, which blast off immediately on water surface exit. Here we see something exiting which is of the size of the missile. It can be dubbed as the cavitaion canister.

    c. The last clip showing target hit has a cliff in the background. Such cliffs are only seen at Ormaraand Gwadar facing the North. Here considering the entire flight path of missile is true and correct, cliff must face South to show the hit from right to left.

    7. It's a fake: The video is certainly a fake with CGI of probably RA'AD missile used to showcase a capability that is difficult for Pakistan to achieve.

    http://www.dailyo.in/politics/pakis...ests-cgi-nuclear-arms-race/story/1/15022.html
     
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