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Pakistan launches crackdown on religious protesters, setting off violent clashes

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by lca-fan, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    In a virtual police state like Pakistan , does anyone even think that such a protest could be mobilised without the PA and it's various arms or the GoP being unaware of it .

    What if this was a ploy by the GoP engineered by NS to play the mullahs against the army which didn't go according to the script , with the PA not biting into the bait and the GoP forced to come to terms with the mullahs ?
     
  2. Dagger

    Dagger 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Hellfire @BlackOpsIndia This protest is provoked by some quarters. The really curious thing is the reason for the protest. Apparently changing the "khatm e nubawwat" declaration from "I swear" to "I believe" and some minor changes in statutes. Whatever is the wording, No ahmadi can abuse it publicly either way. The protest seems to be on a technicality with zero practical difference.
    This seems to be a case of the jackal saying to the lamb "you muddied the water". These protesters are just looking at troubling the GOP with an invented excuse. Now they are backing off as soon as it looks Nawaz has lost a lot of votes. Leads me to believe the army is the puppet master behind these protesters.
     
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  3. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    There are two aspects to this:

    1. You have to always factor in the fact that except for the first three years of formation of Pakistan, Pakistan Army had always held the power, whether overtly (under various Dictators) or covertly as is evident now. This has allowed a virtually unchecked infrastructure of power politics being controlled by the top hierarchy using the discipline of the Armed Forces to ensure a cohesive cartel, if I may use the word, which has evolved precisely on lines of an old time Mafia, into domains of commerce, industries, market economics and security, albeit of different magnitudes. They are Pakistan's answer to the Indian Bureaucracy, you will find a lot of similarities between the two, with both being hand in glove with the political masters. In India, the bureaucracy creeps to implement policy directives if the changes are too much outside the comfort zone they are tuned to. Take the example of policy implementation under the present government. Great and innovative plans are tardily implemented. There is an inherent resistance in-built. We must remain thankful that the bureaucrats do not have the firepower that Pakistan Army has, otherwise we too would have been singing a different tune.

    Why does that happen? The clear and most glaring reason is societal weakness. When I talk of societal weakness, it has less to do with society as a whole and more to do with the ecosystem prevalent wherein an individual citizen is molded. There is commonality of morally corrupt individuals forming a society, a different sub set as opposed to a morally corrupt system. When the society is made up of morally corrupt individuals, it does not make the society as a whole corrupt, but renders the value of morals to a relative domain. And where do the individuals that form the armed forces, the bureaucracy and the politician arise from? This very society.

    2. The systematic indoctrination: If you look at the history of Pakistan, they have always used India has a threat to cement their national integrity. Not something unheard of or extraordinary or even 'wrong', but this got unchecked and moved into domain of mainstreaming of religion, with fundamental changes into the curriculum ads being taught at all levels in Pakistan. When a generation is taught religion over science, the outlook changes. To complicate the issue, after sometime, the society imbibes the same distorted and skewed outlook as was initially intended. The process of ideation becomes blurred into a fact without the concomitant insight that it was, in the first place, an idea.

    You have seen me elsewhere too, many have seen me and few have left here, in all honesty, doubting am a Pakistani :)D) or anti-Hindu. And let me assure you, I have enjoyed making them think the same too, as that is the basic weakness of our society too, the inability to question for yourself what is being taught or projected to you and the tendency to follow the written word (as an example) in totality.

    Why do you think that I interject on the so called pro Hindu jingoistic Threads? Why do you think that I equally take on the salafists and the takfiris?

    That is because there is an inherent fault with each and every religion - they all arose with verbalization of 'verses' or 'words of wisdom' or whatever you may call them. The tendency t0 enforce a particular interpretation or way in religion (oh there is that in Hinduism too, the temple being closed to so called lower castes and women etc) as evident predominantly in the monotheistic religions, by itself is an attempt to quell the rational thinking mind of the human beings. How else would you justify, in a logical way, the paradox of idol worshipping being haram in Islam, yet Kabba is to be visited? Idol means a person or a thing that is greatly loved or revered ..... ! If you look at the Hindu paradox, the actions of Lord Ram with respect to Sita are another oddity, and in Mahabharat the apparent polygamy is a laugh.

    By the above contention, I am not trying to weigh in the relative merits or demerits of the religions, I am merely making a point that in religion there is no rationality and religion is a belief system. That is an individual approach. I may believe that an Elephant was born in sun and came to earth as per my belief and you would have no reason nor justification to challenge it, but if I try to verbalize it and put it in front of you, if I expect anything other than ridicule or downright scorn, I would be living in a fool's paradise.

    So how do you deal with the tricky concept of religion? Our founding fathers, in their wisdom, decided that India will be secular, and have a place for all religions in the ambit of Constitution. Mind you, they decided the nation will have a Constitution that shall rule supreme, not religious laws/traditions. If you look at the mainstream media of as late as 80s, religion was hardly a discussed point, because it was enforced. What changed?

    Similarly, what changed in Pakistan, is there in front of us.

    I think my above broad rant covers this. :)

    Who said he is? You think that we can not eliminate him? The question is, does the political class consider it worth eliminating him? It is always a trade off, you weigh in your advantages to disadvantages.

    If India was to send in a flotilla and armed intervention to pick him up from Karachi, and Pakistan was to intervene against this force, it would be on the receiving end. But why India has not done it?

    The answer lies in Ajmal Kasab and why he was kept alive. And OBL --we told US back in 2005 that OBL is in Abottabad :)



    Not understood this point

    I would not call their anti-militant operations false, they are actual. But they are incomplete and meaningless. Honestly, majority of their armed forces, the junior lot, is professional and understand the need to tackle terror, but the problem starts when the issue comes to those who have the power.

    Who said we are powerful? Majority of our population has no access to food and toilets (let us be very honest there), neither have the societal upbringing or the civic sense to do something about it, lack self discipline, are corrupt in every day life (corruption is not only money/bribe, it is also mundane issue like driving in lane, following traffic signals, allowing right of way, not playing loud music at odd hours, etc .. basically morality, civility and responsibility are corrupted)

    [​IMG]

    An interesting image above of Evacuation in Florida in face of Hurricane Irma (source: www.dailymail.co.uk)

    Do you see any police vehicle? Or any vehicle coming the wrong way? Or any vehicle in side lane for emergency vehicles? Now imagine India.

    The power comes from citizens and what they make of their country, not in claims.


    Very true, but why should they lose the fall guy they have?



    ,
    Surprisingly, Kashmir agenda is now synonymous with Afghan agenda :)
     
  4. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    "Remove Federal Law Minister Zahid Hamid from his position immediately. "Tehreek-i-Labaik will issue no fatwa[religious decree] of any kind against him."

    The report prepared by Raja Zafarul Haq-led committee will be made public within 30 days and whoever is named in the report for being responsible for the change in the election oath will be acted against under the law.

    All protesters arrested between November 6 until the end of the sit-in from across the country will be released within one to three days according to legal requirements. The cases registered against them and the house arrests imposed on them will be ended.

    An inquiry board will be established to probe and decide what action to take against the government and administration officials over the operation conducted by security forces against protesters on Saturday, November 25. The inquiry should be completed within 30 days and action will be taken against those found responsible.

    The federal and provincial governments will determine and compensate for the loss of government and private assets incurred from November 6 until the end of the sit-in.

    The points already agreed to concerning the Government of Punjab will be fully implemented.

    The document ends by crediting Army Chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa and his representative team for their "special efforts" that led to the agreement being signed.

    "We are thankful to him [Gen Bajwa] for saving the nation from a big catastrophe," the document concludes.

    Besides the interior minister, the document bears the signatures of TLY leader Khadim Hussain Rizvi, Interior Secretary Arshad Mirza, two other protest leaders and Maj Gen Faiz Hameed, who facilitated the agreement.

    In addition to the above, the following demands of TLY have also been accepted by the government, according to Khadim Hussain Rizvi:

    A board of clerics led by Pir Muhammad Afzal Qadri will be set up to probe remarks made by Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah against the persecution of Ahmedis. Sanaullah will have to accept the decision made by the board."

    No difficulty will be faced in registering cases under clause 295-C of the Pakistan Penal Code (blasphemy law)

    No leniency will be given to those convicted by courts for blasphemy

    No ban will be imposed on the use of loudspeakers

    The foreign and interior ministries will take steps for the release of Dr Aafia Siddiqui after taking her mother and sister in confidence

    The holiday of Iqbal Day on November 9 will be revived


    Two representatives of Tehreek-i-Labaik will be included in the panel assigned to decide changes in the textbook board. The officials will push for inclusion of translation of the Holy Quran and chapters about Seerat-un-Nabi (PBUH) and Muslim leaders.

    The chehlum of martyrs will be held on January 4 at Rawalpindi's Liaquat Bagh

    Every year, November 25 will be observed as "Martyrs of Prophet's honour day"


    -------------------------------------------



    Its one thing to bend over, this is like complete surrender, absolute subjugation. Not only will everyone involved in the riots go scott free but those officials who carried out the operation against these thugs will be punished! In future, which official will be willing to battle these thugs if they come to the streets again? The best part of the entire fiasco is, not only did the govt. bring the army into this but also managed to get a signature from a Maj. Gen. Both the govt. and the army in written signature completely submitted to the Jihadis. This is sad a hillarious at the same time.
     
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  5. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild IDF NewBie

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    shades of subramaniam swamy in that write up.


    but but but.. Pakistanis are deepest friends of communists/atheists (or atleast budhist) chinese. you mean to say - the CPEC is funded by haram monies?
     
  6. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    That's a very through reply, thanks sir. By cost to Pakistan I meant, since Pakistan is protecting, feeding Hafiz Saeed is there any cost inflicted on them by India? Like paying somewhere else, not necessarily in monetary terms but other ways.

    I used powerful in relative sense, the problems you stated are more social in nature and they are not going to go away ever, though they may be reduced to considerable extent, also they don't really reflect weakness, they reflect poverty, less resources, unwilling unaware social structure but not weakness.

    Power is when Pak request Iran to park the planes scared of getting blown by relatively inferior Indian planes ;)
     
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  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    That is the actual modus operandi.
     
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