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Pakistan Sentences Kulbhushan Jadhav to Death

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by Lion of Rajputana, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I understood that gentleman, but you cannot kill everyone in pakistan can you?? so why not Pin point our enemy and inflict maximum damage?? so lets continue and keep inflicting damage to their economy, respect, dignity worldwide.....that's better than killing innocent people....o_O
     
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  2. Indian Jatt

    Indian Jatt Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You know he is dead right? no counselor access, no proof that he is alive, its just a staged hanging to show the world.......
    now pakistan is in great trouble....India has nabbed an ISI agent that was involved in catching Kulbhushan yadav, India will force him to yell the truth and then pakistan can go to hell......
     
  3. InfoWarrior

    InfoWarrior Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Here is an example of how Islam spread in South-western part of India.
    Hindu king Zamorin's demise...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamorin_of_Calicut
    http://historicalleys.blogspot.in/2012/01/zamorins-demise-1766.html

    The same people who helped Zamorin increase in power, later betrayed Zamorin and allied with HyderAli and later Tipu sultan.

    Indian army should make military bases in southern Indian states, And Indian army should keep lots of ammunition and arms spare. In case the elements below receive arms from Pakistan, Indian army would need to arm elements like RSS to counter them... to make up for the lack of numbers.....





     
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  4. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    US experts question Pakistan’s decision to execute Kulbhushan Jadhav
    Published April 12, 2017
    SOURCE: PTI

    [​IMG]

    Top US experts have expressed concern over Pakistan’s decision to give death penalty to Indian national Kulbhushan Jadhav as they warned that Islamabad wants to send a “strong message” to India against isolating it on the world stage.

    Jadhav, 46, was awarded the death sentence by military Field General Court Martial under the army act for his alleged involvement in terrorism and espionage. The death sentence was confirmed by army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa.

    “Apart from the gross irregularities in the Jadhav situation, such as the lack of consular access and the secrecy surrounding the surprise court-martial, what struck me the most is the contrast between the speed of Mr Jadhav’s trial set against the endless postponements for that of the Mumbai attackers,” Alyssa Ayres, a former senior state department official in its South and Central Asia Bureau said.

    “The latter case, by contrast, has been in a continual state of prolongation for nearly nine years,” Ayres said.

    She is currently senior fellow for India, Pakistan and South Asia at the Council on Foreign Relations, a top American think-tank.

    Bharat Gopalaswamy, director of South Asia Center at the Atlantic Council, a Washington-DC based top US think-tank, believes that the evidence warranting Jadhav’s conviction “is rather flimsy” and the story by the Pakistani authorities “do not add up”.

    Without furnishing further evidence, this conviction as it stands, “seems to be politically motivated” in order to counter India’s aggressive diplomacy against Pakistan in combating terrorism, he said.

    “This whole story is shrouded in mystery and uncertainty, but it seems clear that Pakistan wants to send a very strong message to India, whether to warn New Delhi against meddling in Pakistan or to push back in a big way against India’s efforts to isolate Pakistan on the world stage,” said Michael Kugelman, deputy director and senior associate for South Asia at the prestigious Woodrow Wilson Center.

    “At the same time, given how much India will want to ensure that Yadav isn’t executed, Pakistan now has a very large bargaining chip at its disposal. Pakistan may want to use Yadav as a trump card to get some type of major concession from India,” Kugelman said.

    “The bottom line is that India-Pakistan relations are on life support. We can kiss goodbye any immediate prospects for resuming dialogue, though that wasn’t a very strong possibility even before the announcement about Yadav’s death sentence. Ultimately, India and Pakistan face some very dark and dangerous days ahead,” he said.

    According to Sameer Lalwani, senior associate and deputy director for Stimson’s South Asia program, said the decision and timing of Jadhav’s execution sentence “appears puzzling” because in many ways it does not seem to work in Pakistan’s self-interest.

    “If Jadhav posed a threat and Pakistan wanted to send a deterrent signal to potential saboteurs of CPEC and Gwadar, they could have executed him months ago after his intelligence value had been exhausted,” Lalwani said.”If Pakistan wanted to exploit Jadhav’s capture for diplomatic purposes by showcasing evidence of Indian sub conventional aggression, Pakistan still has yet to convince the international community and an execution raises suspicions,” Lalwani said.

    “Finally, if the Indians care that much about Jadhav, Pakistan could have used him as a bargaining chip. Perhaps the sentence is an opening bargaining gambit but actually executing Jadhav may not be reaping much of a deterrent signal for Pakistan while foreclosing on diplomatic or trade value,” he said.Both the state department and the White House refused to comment on the sentencing of Jadhav.

    “We have seen these reports. We refer you to the governments of India and Pakistan for further information,” a state department spokesperson said.

    Source
     
  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Kulbhushan Jadhav death sentence: Bilawal says PPP against capital punishment
    Published April 12, 2017
    SOURCE: PTI

    [​IMG]

    Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) chief Bilawal Bhutto Zardari has indirectly opposed the death sentence handed out to Indian national Kulbhushan Jadhav for “spying”, saying the issue is controversial but his party is against capital punishment “on principle”.

    “The issue of Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav is controversial. He must not have been here in the first place,” Bilawal told reporters on Tuesday.

    Recalling that his maternal grandfather Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was also sentenced to death, he said his party is against capital punishment on principle.

    PPP Punjab president and former federal information minister Qamar Zaman Kaira said the India’s reaction on Jadhav’s death sentence was “natural”.

    “In fact Nawaz Sharif government has failed to tell the world about the chargesheet on Jadhav. Had India arrested such a Pakistani spy it would have propagated a lot in the world,” he said.

    Pakistan’s former attorney general Anwar Mansoor Khan said Jadhav can file a review appeal before the army chief or the Supreme Court against his sentence.

    “In case of rejection of his petition, he may file mercy plea before the President,” he said, adding this is a long process and it may take more than two years.

    Pakistan sentenced Jadhav to death for carrying out espionage and sabotage activities in Balochistan and Karachi, the military’s media wing Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) had said in a statement.

    According to ISPR, Jadhav alias Hussein Mubarak Patel was arrested on March 3, 2016 from Mashkel area of Balochistan for his “involvement in espionage and sabotage actives” in Pakistan’s restive Balochistan province and Karachi city.

    India had acknowledged that Jadhav had served with the navy but denied that he has any connection with the government.

    Source
     
  6. InfoWarrior

    InfoWarrior Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    But Christians are good people, I have never seen any Christians ganging up against Hindus or other religious groups. Christian countries allow lot of freedom for Hindu faith to grow.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_the_United_States

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindu_temples_in_the_United_States

    Yes some Christian missionaries do use deception to convert simple minded people. For example Tribals in Orissa and Jharkhand. Most Christians have no problems in accepting that they are descendants of Hindu ancestors.


    See how Muslim kingdoms ganged up against Vijaynagara Empire.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talikota

    The Third Battle of Panipat took place on 14 January 1761 at Panipat, about 60 miles (97 km) north of Delhi, between a northern expeditionary force of the Maratha Empire and invading forces of the King of Afghanistan, Ahmad Shah Abdali, supported by two Indian allies—the Rohilla Afghans of the Doab, and Shuja-ud-Daula, the Nawab of Awadh. Militarily, the battle pitted the artillery and cavalry of the Marathas against the heavy cavalry and mounted artillery (zamburak and jizail) of the Afghans and Rohillas led by Ahmad Shah Abdali and Najib-ud-Daulah, both ethnic Afghans (the former is also known as Ahmad Shah Durrani). The battle is considered one of the largest and most eventful fought in the 18th century,[4][page needed] and has perhaps the largest number of fatalities in a single day reported in a classic formation battle between two armies.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Panipat

    Rohilla's of lower Uttar pradesh and Nawab of Awadh in upper Uttar pradesh supported Afghans against Marathas.

    Though this will never repeat since India has nuclear weapons and second largest army armed to the teeth, so India has no external threats. India can only be defeated from internal betrayal. We should lay traps to expose people who can betray us, people will only betray us when they think that they can get away with betrayal. If some group want to go Pro- Pakistan let them, If some group wants to support Pakistan on Kashmir issue, encourage them to come out in the open. If someone wants to support Pakistan cricket team against India let them. A hidden threat is 1000 times more dangerous than an revealed threat.
     
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  7. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    I like the last one. Hidden Threat is far more dangerous than the revealed threat in Indian Establishment.
    They might be the biggest threat to India in the future than any other outside nations.
     
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  8. InfoWarrior

    InfoWarrior Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Indians where once very proud and brave people. But perverse religious practices like caste system etc weakened our DNA and made us backward. Strength of a Human being is his brain, using our brain even a human child can kill a tiger using a gun. I support current RW to some extent but religious fanaticism is poison, it destroys critical thinking. India had so much potential, we had more resources and potential than Arabs, Europeans, Turks etc. Indians kingdoms kept fighting with each other, giving opportunity to others to invade and subjugate us.

    Hinduism by concept was(and still is(eg Dalits)) very divisive, Hinduism failed to unite Hindus in the way Islam united Arabs. First Hindu to realize this was Guru Nanak, he studied Islam and other concepts, and made Sikhism= Hindu culture + elements of unity from Islam. Hindus started converting increasingly to Sikhism and this culminated in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's Sikh Empire, before this Afghans where terror to Indians now Indians became terror to Afghans. 85% of muslims in India are from low caste, how come they are so integrated? How to transform Hinduism into a religion of peace and unity?

    If our Hindus ancesters had transformed Hinduism into something like Sikhism i.e. Hinduism 2.0 ....Whole of central Asia, middle east, south east Asia would have been Hindu kingdoms. Stupidity of our Hindu ancestors failed us.

    Hinduism by concept does not promote unity among Hindus. Hinduism requires a renaissance.
    If only we had a Hindu version of Mohamed, who had reformed Hinduism to be more inclusive with no division.

    The amount of Genetic, social and financial damage caused by 1200 foreign rule is immense. In each invasion the cream of Indian society was enslaved and taken away and dispersed, the bravest and proudest were killed. The result was the surviving DNA were those who were not good enough to be enslaved, those didn't resist, docile enough tolerate the invaders. The Genetic damage this has caused is not analyzed. Caste system has also caused genetic damage. Most of the Indian population is poor, tame, weak and subservient.

    We are recovering Socially and Financially, but Genetic recovery is also required. But modern Technology can help in Genetic recovery. For example We can take DNA samples of the best people in the world and introduce it in our populations using Genetic Enineering. The cream genetic wealth of other countries can be propagated in our populations. Let Indians be the best people. Thousands of years of genetic damage can be repaired in 1 generation. Full social and economic recovery isn't possible without full genetic recovery.
    https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country
    http://www.therichest.com/high-life/top-15-countries-with-the-most-beautiful-people/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_at_the_Olympics
     
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  9. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Even Pakistan civilians are tried by military courts: Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri
    Published April 12, 2017
    SOURCE: PTI

    upload_2017-4-12_14-36-54.jpeg

    Amid fresh strain in Indo-Pak ties, former Pakistan Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri today defended Kulbhushan Jadhav’s death sentence, saying even Pakistanis were being tried by military courts.

    “Even many civilians in Pakistan have been tried by military courts,” he told reporters on the sidelines of a conference while replying to a barrage of questions on the death sentence to Jadhav.

    In his address at a conference on Indo-Pak relations, he said relations between the two countries have nosedived but the only way out to check it is to engage in talks.

    Kasuri said both the sides must not allow things to drift away and that it is in Pakistan’s interest to have good relations with India.

    At the same time he admitted that things between the two neighbours are not looking good.

    “Relationships are not normal right now. Rhetoric not particularly good on either side of the border. I must admit I was initially hesitant, but it is these times that we must persist and talk about peace.

    He said India will not be able to isolate Pakistan internationally as Islamabad will react to it strongly.

    “It will never happen as Pakistan will react,” he said, adding the idea of cutting off Pakistan from its South Asian moorings will not be in the interest of both sides.

    Pakistan High Commissioner Abdul Basit, Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar and senior lawyer Ram Jethmalani were among dignitaries present at the conference.

    During the talk, Kasuri was constantly asked to respond on the issue of Kubhushan Jadhav, but he remained tight-lipped.

    “One former British Secretary had spoken about the policy of benign neglect. But, I do not think that benign neglect on either side will work. It will never be on an even keel,” he said, as he emphasised the need for dialogues to resolve outstanding issues, including the Kashmir dispute.

    Earlier in the day, India warned Pakistan to consider the “consequences” on their ties if Jadhav is hanged in the alleged espionage case and vowed to go “out of the way” to save him amid an outrage in this country.
     
  10. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    On Kulbhushan Jadhav, India Will Do Whatever It Takes, Says Rajnath Singh
    Published April 12, 2017
    SOURCE: NDTV

    [​IMG]

    Indian man Kulbhushan Jadhav’s death sentence in Pakistan was strongly condemned by MPs in parliament who urged the government to do everything possible to save him and bring him back to India. Home Minister Rajnath Singh told the house that the government would do whatever it takes to bring justice to the former navy man.

    “India strongly condemns the death sentence. Basic norms of law and justice were violated. I want to tell the house that the government will do whatever it takes to make sure Kulbhushan Jadhav gets justice,” Mr Singh said.

    Earlier, the Congress said Prime Minister Narendra Modi must intervene to save Mr Jadhav.”Pakistan has sentenced Kulbhushan Jadav on lies and false allegations of spying. Why is the government silent?” Congress’s Mallikarjun Kharge questioned in the Lok Sabha.

    “If Pakistan hangs Kulbhushan Jadhav, then it is murder. The government will be seen as weak if it cannot free him,” Mr Kharge said.

    Hyderabad lawmaker Asaduddin Owaisi said, “The government has influence, please use it. Will the government make every effort to save him? It is our joint responsibility to save him.”

    Kulbhushan Jadhav, who was arrested in March last year by Pakistan and accused by the country of spying, was sentenced to death by a Pakistani military court yesterday and announced in a press statement. New Delhi has alleged that its officials were never informed.


    “We are all united on this issue. No one is opposition or government. We are all Indians on this…India must take this up at UN and flobally,” said BJD’s Jay Panda.

    The move has sharply escalated tension between India and Pakistan. “If this sentence against an Indian citizen, awarded without observing basic norms of law and justice, is carried out, the government and people of India will regard it as a case of premeditated murder,” the Foreign Ministry said. It also called the proceedings that led to the sentence “farcical”.

    Pakistani High Commissioner Abdul Basit was summoned to protest at the conviction and sentence. India also said that Pakistan had ignored its multiple requests for consular access to Mr Jadhav.

    India has also retaliated by deciding it will not release 12 Pakistani prisoners who were cleared to return home today.

    When Mr Jadhav was arrested, India said the claim that he was a spy was “baseless” and said a video of his alleged confession was not authentic
     
  11. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Is Pakistan army trying to strike a hard bargain?
    Published April 12, 2017
    SOURCE: TNN

    [​IMG]

    The death sentence awarded to the alleged Indian spy, former naval officer Kulbhushan Jadhav, by a Pakistan military Field General Court martial (FCGM), is hardly going to do anything to improve Pakistan’s already very tense relations with India.

    Given the state of ties between India and Pakistan, there is little chance of normal diplomatic channels working to resolve this matter, even less so given the hype and hysteria around Jadhav that has been manufactured by the media corps of the Pakistan army.

    India will therefore have to do something out of the ordinary if it is serious about getting Jadhav back.

    The case against Jadhav is based on flimsy evidence. Other than his “confession”, which was almost certainly forced out of him and which would have zero value in any court, which wasn’t a kangaroo court, there is little else against him.

    Top Pakistani officials, including Sartaj Aziz, have admitted as much on at least two occasions in the past.

    And yet, if the Pakistanis have decided to hang him, then there is something more to it than meets the eye, more so because the norm in cases like this is to not take an extreme step.

    The timing of this sentence suggests that the Pakistanis are trying to send a signal to India.

    A day or two before Jadhav was condemned in the ‘farcical’ proceedings, there was a report that a former Pakistan Army official — most likely an ISI man who was indulging in some nefarious activity — had gone missing in Nepal.

    The alacrity with which the news made headlines in Pakistan’s embedded media was an indication that the dirty tricks department of ISI was spooked by the officer going missing.

    The fear in Pakistan was that he was picked up by the Indian intelligence to be used as a bargaining chip for Jadhav. In an attempt to preempt what they expected to follow, the Pakistanis floated a cock-and-bull story about the officer going for a job interview to Lumbini.

    It is tempting to speculate about a probable link between the missing Pakistani officer and Jadhav’s sentence. If indeed there is such a link, then clearly the Pakistanis are upping the ante and signalling that a possible swap between the two is not on offer.

    Assuming the Pakistani officer is a high-value person, the Pakistanis are sending a message that is tough and uncompromising, hoping in the process to drive a very hard bargain.

    The problem, however, is that the Pakistan army, perhaps deliberately, could have overplayed its hand by hyping up the Jadhav sentence to a point that it will be difficult to back off and do a deal.



    Even if a deal has to be done, the Pakistan army will expect the politicians to carry the can for such a deal while they come out smelling of roses. But given that this is an election year in Pakistan, no politician will like to risk a spy swap deal that leaves him open to accusations of a sell-out to India.Chances are, therefore, that there will be no quick closure to the Jadhav affair. What remains to be seen is how, in the meantime, India ratchets up the pressure and what ‘consequences’ await Pakistan for its bloody-mindedness on this issue.
     
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Yes,we can kill everyone in Pakistan,what are our nukes for playing "Battleships board game"?
    Again the words "Let's not kill innocent people".
    Who are innocent here?
    The people of Pakistan elect their representatives,their elected leaders behave the way their electorate wants them to be,same case with the military too.The whole existence of Pakistan is based on the hate of India as a nation and Hindus.Then who exactly are innocent people there?

    Your suggestion is that India expends and sacrifice its HUMINT to a great deal to pin point enemy targets and do maximum damage. WHY?
    Why can't we just simply do maximum damage in the easiest place in reach (such as civilians) with minimal HUMINT, that in turn will inflict damage on their economy,respect,dignity and give a bad picture to the world,that there is no security in Pakistan,which will turn away any investors or tourists.

    When you have a easy target in front of you which achieves the same goals,why would you want to go to great lengths to ignore such easy target and go after hard target,which has the same outcome as the former.
    there are no rules laid down in proxy wars,everything is a fair target.
     
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  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Of course,he is or could be dead.
    Force him to yell the truth? not just that,they will carry the execution of that ISI Lt.Col. with him screaming and crying in gallows.
     
  14. InfoWarrior

    InfoWarrior Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    our response should be measured and calibrated, Kulbushan was captured by deceit, let's do the same capture some Pakistani retired officers by deceit and execute them... If Kulbushan is killed then we should make a Sarabjit out of this captured Pakistani colonel....
     
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  15. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I agree with most of your views,but Caste system was not rigid back in those days,The Mauryas who once ruled India are now OBC's That is just one example among many, I have always said that Hindus should unite as one entity.Caste system became rigid after Islamic invasions and further solidified with British,because they used this to exploit Indians by divide and rule.

    It is only a matter of time before that happens and the homogenization is complete as one Hindu entity without any casts..Still there are people around who think Hindi ,Sanskrit is alien but English is good for national integration and uniting India.

    Religion is needed in this case,you are dealing with another religion which is Monotheist in ideas and tolerance. When facing such opposition you need to think like they do.

    Leftists celebrate "Unity in diversity" these fake ideas are celebrated and spread to Hindus to keep them disunited. The chinese too had many groups,they are now united as Hans with a single language spoken nationally,while the dialects and lingo varies from province to province.
    There is a urgent need for a national Indic language,once that happens,English impact would be weaned off and people's minds would be decolonized forever.
    You, do know that we have unique DNA which is different from other nations.You should look at our own genepool which is no less than 1.25 billion strong gene database and introduce it back, Some of our traits are tailor made to suit for Indian subcontinent.While bringing in other genes you risk,importing new genetic diseases which have afflicted others due to evolution in their places of origin.
    IQ increase can be done by having a good supply of omega-3,good nutrition.Educating children in Gurkul system.Finally,Moral values need to be taught,so that next generation becomes what you want it to be,strong,mentally and physically.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017

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