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Pakistan tells US to accept defeat in Afghanistan, agrees assistance on equal terms

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by WhyCry, Oct 25, 2017.

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Are pakistan demands valid?

  1. No

    2 vote(s)
    7.4%
  2. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Its absurd and day dreaming as usual

    25 vote(s)
    92.6%
  4. Both sides will find middle ground

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. WhyCry

    WhyCry Reaper Love Developers -IT and R&D

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    Foreign Minister Khawaja Asif, while briefing the Senate on Wednesday regarding the talks held between Pakistani and American delegations a day earlier, asserted that Islamabad will co-operate with Washington in the 'war on terror' but without compromising its own sovereignty.

    On Tuesday, a six-member delegation comprising Pakistan's top civil and military leadership hosted US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson for a brief visit to Islamabad.

    Asif briefed that the Pakistani leadership told the American delegation that they should allow their policymakers, and not their military leaders, to devise a policy for Afghanistan as the military solution has failed and a political solution is needed.

    "Their failures over the past 16 years [since the war in Afghanistan started] is before them," Asif added.

    "There will only be room for improvement if Washington accepts their defeat, their failures in Afghanistan," Asif said on Wednesday. "They are not ready to accept this."

    During the talks, Asif told the Senate, Pakistani officials informed the American delegation that Pakistan does not want any military hardware, economic resources or material gain from Washington. Rather, Pakistan wants a relationship based on equality with the US.

    Asif further informed the Senate that the Pakistani side has told the American delegation that if the latter provides actionable intelligence, Pakistan will act on it. He gave the example of the recent rescue of an American-Canadian couple and their three children from terrorists’ captivity in Kohat.

    "However, if they want that we act as their proxies to fight their war... this is unacceptable."

    "We will not compromise on our sovereignty, our dignity," Asif added. "Our relations [with America] should be based on self-respect and dignity."

    He said, in contrast, Pakistan, which is not a superpower, has gained successes in the war against terror.

    "Our country, our military and our police have made sacrifices in the war and in return, we have gained unmatched success."

    He said Pakistan would see further success if the Parliament, the National Security Committee and the people of the country send a united message as they had after August 21 when US President Donald Trump announced his South Asia policy and lambasted Pakistan for offering safe havens to "agents of chaos".

    At no stage since the policy announcement, have we succumbed to pressure and on Tuesday, for the first time, the civilian and military leadership of Pakistan sat down with the delegation and presented their input, Asif said.

    "At no point during the talks did we adopt an accusatory tone, nor were we apologetic," the minister told the Senate.

    "The institutions of Pakistan will protect the country's interest," Asif said.

    Diminishing influence over Taliban
    Asif further told the Senate that the Pakistani side had told the visiting delegation that the influence Pakistan once had over the Taliban has now diminished and there are others who are sponsoring the militant network.

    He said that Washington had been tracing Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Akhtar Mansour for some time but only when he travelled to Pakistani soil he was killed.

    "How do you expect that after these incidents Pakistan will have any influence over the Taliban?" Asif said, adding that these points had been raised in Tuesday's meeting in a "frank" manner.

    "We have told them that there are a number of influential players in the region ─ including China, Turkey and Russia ─ who might not have good relations with America but hold a stake in the Afghan dispute."

    "The role of these countries in solving the dispute is indispensable," Asif added.

    Referring to a recent statement by US Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley where she said that India can help the United States in keeping an eye on Pakistan, Asif said that Pakistan "also has a mouth to speak" but will proceed with caution so that relations with America can improve.

    Pakistan is not a safe haven for terrorists, US told
    Following the meeting between Pakistani officials and Rex Tillerson in Islamabad, Asif ─ who was a member of the Pakistani delegation ─ said that the American delegation was informed that Washington's allegations against Pakistan of offering safe havens to terrorists and protecting the Haqqani network are incorrect.

    Speaking on Geo News' late night show Aaj Shahzaib Khanzada Key Saath, Asif said that Islamabad wanted to show that all institutions in the country have the same message.

    When asked whether the joint talks were held with the visiting secretary due to a time crunch or, rather, in order to send out a united message to Washington, he said, "This was our deliberate decision ─ to hold talks on a single platform ─ so that Washington knows the leadership is united in the message it is sending across," Asif said.

    Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1366178/p...-afghanistan-agrees-assistance-on-equal-terms
     
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  2. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I'd like to think the countdown for Pakistan has begun . I've yet to see a better example of the old Sanskrit phrase - Vinaash Kaale Viprith Buddhi.

    But Pakistan has enjoyed more lives than the proverbial cat with 9 lives .
     
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  3. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Pakiz seem to have won this sadly. The time US could have done sumtin about it was during the first OBAMBA term. But they fucked up.

    Afghanistan is a lost cause.

    In the end, we can't blame Americans for not fighting our wars. We had plenty of time to do something ourselves. Get Chabhar running. Support Afghan military with boots on the ground (probably not the best idea). But we didn't.

    Now Taliban will return to power in Afghanistan and insurgency to J&K.
     
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  4. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Hunooz , dilli door ast !

    For the US or its allies to quit Afghanistan is never an option . They simply can't risk a return to the Pre 2001 situation and another 9/11 .The political fall out for whosoever would be holding the reins of the power then would be catastrophic .So , the total withdrawal of US "boots on the ground " / non combat assistance / advisory capacity etc is effectively and completely ruled out .

    Having gotten that out of the way , it means that if the US is going to maintain a presence in Afghanistan , Pakistan would have to be confronted.

    What we are seeing is an evolution of US strategic thought from when hostilities commenced post 9/11 under the Bush Administration , with Pakistan being partner in arms and where in the first doubts on Pakistan's sincerity in the War Against Terror ( WAT ) were noticed .
    As the war progressed during the Obama Adminstration it became amply clear as to where did Pakistan's priorities lie . I don't need to add a timeline for the various incidents or the various statements expressing such sentiments at the highest level , for all this is in the public domain .

    Obama essentially was an American version of our very own MMS - the proverbial decent man who had a firm grasp on what ought to be done but baulked from taking tough decisions choosing half measures and softer options .What's worse is he picked the wrong fights ( against Russia in Ukraine , intervention in Libya & involvement in Syria , underplaying the pivot by not taking PRC to task for its illegal creation / occupation of man made islands in the SCS and the Spratlys, respectively ) .Having said that the foreign policy highlights of his legacy includes the side lining of Israel / Saudi objections over the Iranian N deal , re establishing relations with Cuba , etc , which is tangential to this discussion ( but needed for an appraisal of his foreign policy achievements )

    The inevitable was postponed to his successor .Arguably , even if Trump's rival Hilary Clinton were elected , the response from the US would've been the same as Trump albeit the language a bit nuanced and toned down .

    The stage is now set for decisive action and the ball is firmly in Pakistan's court . It's habit of running with the hare and hunting with the hound perfected under Musharraf / Kayani has been called out and the cash cow which is the WAT has started yielding diminishing returns for the PA . Please note that while Pakistan may point out fingers at India for being an existential threat justifying the development of TNW and it's delivery system constantly citing Cold Start , it's also a subtle message to the US that were they to attempt neutralization of Pakistan's NWP , those TNW can be diverted to the wrong hands . It was always US's call as to whether they would choose to live with this or Bell the cat .

    Something has got to give but I believe the deep state in Pakistan has still not come to terms with reality to make the necessary course corrections . Although making it will result in a deepening of civil strife in Pakistan , ignoring it will invite disastrous ramifications but the US has determined that the road to peace in Kabul lies through pacifying Pindi / Islamabad and right now it's not the carrot doing the pacification as during Obama's tenure but the stick .

    The forthcoming years of Trump's first term will be very interesting not just for Pakistan or S Asia but all of Asia the way and speed At which events are unfolding but in Pakistan's Case Round 1 of the boxing bout has commenced .
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  5. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What decisive action? If the US stays, then there is nothing they can do that they haven't already done.

    The only decisive action that can be taken - sanctions, can only be done AFTER leaving Afghanistan.

    Obama was a fool. By the time he came on to power, US was already working to mitigate Pakistani duplicity (stopped informing pakistani about drone strikes).

    From 2008 to 2013, Pakistani economy was on life support from IMF (US), OK relations with Russia (northern route), China not that important. Raging domestic insurgency -TTP.

    This was the time to take serious action against Pukies. They even found Osama at a minutes distance from the Pakistani Military academy.

    And what did he do? Provided billions more in aid, billions of IMF bailout, no sanctions, no threats nothing.

    Today northern route is closed, no longer need bailout and even if they did, China's there to pick up the tab. TTP - forcefully converted to Good Taliban.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Pak has no centralised control on nukes, more dangerous than North Korea: Ex-US Senator
    Updated: Oct 26, 2017 | 17:56 IST | Source - PTI

    [​IMG]

    Washington: Pakistan is more dangerous than North Korea as it does not have a centralised control on its nuclear weapons, making them vulnerable to theft and sale, a former top American senator warned, describing both the nations as rogue states.

    Larry Pressler, who served as chairman of the US Senate's Arms Control Subcommittee, feared that Pakistan's nuclear weapons might be used against the US, warning the possibility of someone buying these nuclear weapons from generals or colonels.

    As chairman of Senate Arms Control Subcommittee, Pressler advocated the now-famous Pressler Amendment, enforced in 1990.





    Aid and military sales to Pakistan were blocked, including a consignment of F-16 fighter aircraft, changing forever the tenor of the US relationships with Pakistan and India.

    "Their weapons could be transported to the US fairly simply. Just as 9/11 was a very simple operation run by 20 or 30 people," he said.

    "The Pakistani nuclear bombs are not controlled. They are subject to sale or stealing and they could be easily gotten out of Pakistan to just about anywhere in the world," he said speaking at an event organised by The Hudson Institute, a top American think-tank.

    "I consider Pakistan more dangerous than North Korea in the sense that Pakistan doesn't have a centralised control of their nuclear weapons," Pressler said while discussing his latest book 'Neighbours in Arms: An American Senator’s Quest for Disarmament in a Nuclear Subcontinent'.

    The former top American Senator, however, said he does not think that Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are going to be used against India.

    "I think what North Korea needs is just a lot of attention and hand-holding. Pakistan is a different thing because you don't really have one person in charge. I think Pakistan is more dangerous to the US," he reiterated in response to a question.

    With Secretary of State Rex Tillerson having just concluded his India trip wherein he sought to elevate India-US relationship, Pressler said the US should declare Pakistan a terrorist state.

    "We should declare Pakistan a terrorist state. We should put certain sanctions on Pakistan,” he said.

    Pressler said in his book he has made recommendations for some reforms to treat India at a higher level.

    When a Pakistani embassy official asked Pressler, if it is appropriate to categorise Pakistan and North Korea on the same page, the Senator said "Yes".

    "From a nuclear dangerous point of view, I think they are both the rogue states, in my opinion. They both do not have the interests of the US in mind. Pakistan has been and is harbouring terrorists. And North Korea is a threat to the US," he said.

    He said President Donald Trump may be one of the best presidents in terms of Indo-US relationship.

    Trump, Tillerson and the Secretary of Defense are advocating closer relationships with India, he said.

    "They are coming close to declaring Pakistan a terrorist state or at least in effect. And they are very interested in moving towards a freer trade with India of course," the former Senator from South Dakota said.

    Moderating the session, former Pakistan's ambassador to the US, Husain Haqqani said American officials have acknowledged that Pakistan has a stable command and control system over its nuclear programme.

    Haqqani, however, said "Pakistanis are living in a narrative that is purely Pakistani."

    "One should pay attention to what Pressler said that while he started out by being critical of the nuclear programme of everybody it was Pakistan's repeated inability to keep the promises that made him particularly critical," he said.

    "I'm a Pakistani too and I would say that there is some merit to that argument where the Pakistanis want to recognise it or not. We have a tendency to over promise and then later on give excuses for why we couldn't keep our promise that's not just in relation to the nuclear issue, we have seen that over Afghanistan in the last two decades,” he said.


    http://www.timesnownews.com/amp/int...orea-nuclear-weapons-former-us-senator/113365
     
  7. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Here is the complete story :

    There were two friends, U & P, just to make it easier to understand, U was very rich and wanted to start a business which was far away from his home, fortunately the location was in neighborhood of P's home, so U thought let just trust P and give him some money so that P could keep eye on his business. P was a very notorious and a very poor man and he needed this money badly, he simply had no experience in doing business and lived on daily borrowings from S,C & Wife's monthly salary, who worked at S's house i.e. remittances. But U trusted P and gave him the money to start the business in partnership, but P was never interested in working, the moment P got huge money, meant for the business, he started buying furniture, his favorite car mehran & salwar-kamiz ,etc. As the time passed, U realized that his investment is failing due to P's unchecked expenditure and mis-management, he soon warned P about it, but P never accepted this accusation, after all P now had his mehran and house filled with goodies.

    U's frustration was reaching it's peak and U one day warned P that due to him his investments failed, but P was never ready to accept it and rather blamed U for the failure, according to P U's business failed not because of P but because of U himself as U trusted him blindly and never understood the financial condition in which P was living. Now U feels helpless as he lost his money and now he informs his other friends to stay away from P and never lend him money as P can't trusted.

    As few years passed, P had spent all his money on buying more furniture, salwar-kamiz, upgraded mehran car,etc he now felt need of money, and he started asking his other friend to lend him some money, he asked S who couldn't lend him as he too was informed by U and his dalda oil business was not going well, P approached C, but C being a badass leftist-shroff gangster always asked higher interest rate, P choosed to stay away from C. P was almost bankrupt as wife was also jobless due to dalda oil recession.

    So in a nutshell P came up with an idea and he called U and told him that "Hey bro!! I need some bucks, I'll promise that I'll revive your business and this time we'll work on "Equal Terms" ".

    U is rather thinking about killing P with drones.

    @_Anonymous_
     
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