Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Pakistan Tests Hatf-7 ('Babur') Cruise Missile

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by sanman, Oct 28, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. vikas jat

    vikas jat Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    88
    ha ha ha ha GOOD ONE ..ya chinese missile hai bAS PAKISTAN N PAINT KIYA HA ISPAR
     
  2. Praveen Taneja

    Praveen Taneja 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    60
    Paint bhi India se mangwaya hoga:haha:
     
  3. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,744
    Likes Received:
    2,114
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    21,213
    Likes Received:
    5,716
    Country Flag:
    India
    nice pic :angel:
     
  5. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,744
    Likes Received:
    2,114
    not sure if they are available on the internet, NESCOM probably haven't made them public.

    Well, it was October 1998, that a tomahawk crashed in Pakistani territory, it was retrieved by the military.
    Tomahawk had a major influence in Babur's design. There is no evidence to suggest Chinese involvement, how ever the possibility cannot be ruled out. The Fact is NESCOM have made it, I wouldn't be at all ashamed if part of the development had Chinese involvement.

    the OBL raid, left us with a chopper customized for stealth, after a serious violation of our sovereignty, breach of security and possible shattering of any ties what so ever..... were we not going to take full advantage of whatever we had available?
    Still no evidence to suggest Chinese involvement, The only sub-sonic CM of China of the same class I can think of are DH-10 and CJ-10. Both pretty shady as to what the origin ins are, but the range and flight altitude for these are completely different to Tomahawk.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not ruling out anything, you shouldn't label it without knowing for sure.

    yes well about MTCR... didn't sign it... and the military called it 'irrelevant' to our defense, showing our un-willingness to abide by it.
    and lets not forget how US can sell Tomahwak to NATO nations.... why can't we do the same.

    But I am confident that if that is to stop us, something tells me that we may just see a Chinese missile, with our colors and our flag on top, hasn't stopped us before.
     
  6. Praveen Taneja

    Praveen Taneja 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    60
    Surely this cat is also not of Pakistan :haha::rofl:

    There are plenty of pigs and monkeys I know:rofl:
     
  7. Tailchopper

    Tailchopper Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    536
    Country Flag:
    Pakistan
    One step closer to Naval integration , God speed - God Bless , Fly high , hit hard !
     
  8. TereBinLaden

    TereBinLaden Captain STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    264
    Whats up not to make it public? will some one steal the design from a model? every nation exhibits her technological prowess...

    36MT Turbofan of NPO Saturn used in Kh-59 tactical air launched missile
    [​IMG]

    HAL PTAE-7 Turbojet layout used in Lakshya PTA
    [​IMG]

    DRDO's Laghu Shakti Turbofan engine which is yet to declare its usage platform, maybe it will be used in small sized UAV/UCAV or even subsoinic cruise missiles such as Nirbhay............the image also exhibits DRDOs breakthrough in Blisk Machining Technology
    [​IMG]
    Image showing metallurgy capabilities of DRDO in designing indigenous engine.
    [​IMG]

    now if Pakistan do not exhibits such things, there would be suspicion around that something fishy is going on. Is it that Pakistan don't exhibit the engine layout because it is a 100% copied?

    Well I have not speculated anything illogical, this is how think tanks around the world speculates, Pakistan have not shown any prowess in technological breakthrough in such an engine technology, Pakistan have not exhibited the metallurgy required to manufacture such a component before to manufacture such product, so how did Pakistan managed to produce/invent such a technology? Her R&D achievement in the case and poor industrial base do not support the logic of Pakistan being able to make such a military standard product without any external assistance received, and in such a scenario who might be helping Pakistan comes in mind and events indicates it is most probably PRC. Moreover unavailability of engine Layout design in exhibitions such as IDEA further strengthen the doubt.

    Why PRC cannot openly sell long range missiles and relevant technology to her customers?
    Their are many ways to stop a nation from forcing her to stop doing such an act other then just signing a treaty.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
  9. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,744
    Likes Received:
    2,114
    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,744
    Likes Received:
    2,114
    Not for me to wonder why, unless someone else can find a model of it....?
    Well we and the Chinese have a history of not making all projects public whereas DRDO's developments are very transparent, now what exactly is your point?

    Well... lets see take Ra'ad for example, care to find me some similar models of that which you requested? is it that Ra'ad is a Tomahawk rip off too?

    While i cannot deny it, I cannot just give you the benefit of the doubt, but the fact is that is made by NESCOM, where the technology exists from is irrelevant.
    No, you haven't but it seems you've ignorantly ruled out any possibility except the one that suits you best.

    Again... no credible evidence to suggest, only crude misunderstanding and taking up the possibility that suits you.
    mate just because you don't see anything does not mean that it isn't there.

    Would you have called the F-117 rip off of alien tech because you were being kept in the dark? it is absurd but still plausible.

    CJ-10K...

    and yet as I've said each one of those has a way around it, and history proves this.... we've done it before.
     
  11. TereBinLaden

    TereBinLaden Captain STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    264
    afaik even china exihibited its ws-10 engine and other products.

    idk but could be a miniature version using the same process, not sure though.
    IPR infringement, a show for copy cat layout might not be in favour to Pakistan.
    I have used terms like 'it is believed' and 'speculated', but point to be noted is before Pakistan regular troops were found fighting together with Terrorist, even then we had very little to prove, we have speculated 26/11 an act for Pakistan based terror, even then we could not prove until Kasab got caught. Not that everything that cannot be directly proved doesn't happens.
    [/QUOTE]

    Americans have nothing to prove, they have the market and are being leaders.

    please be specific.

    not a very healthy way of doing business
     
  12. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,744
    Likes Received:
    2,114
    years after... yes... WS-10 is in no way a new engine, it is mature now and has multiple variants.

    It isn't to put it simply....

    not ruling out the possibility but not assuming that it is the case either, since they haven't shown for Ra'ad either.

    similarly but vice versa.... so will you not accuse and I wont say either way? All I've said is that it is made by NESCOM nothing else.
    not the point though...
    So do you think that non-leaders must prove their work? or cn they not do so like the US did? would it not be beneficial is some sense?

    6 QING Class have been ordered by PN, to be fitted with CJ-10K, confirmed widely by insiders.
    and as below whether that comes in the form of Chinese CJ-10K or some other 'safer' form, we don't know yet.

    May not be, but since it may be the only way, it must be the best way...
    I'd rather have it that way then no way.
     
  13. TereBinLaden

    TereBinLaden Captain STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    264
    Does it means Baburs turbojet is not matured?

    I will need more search of Info about Ra'ad before jumping into a Ra'ad debate.
    And when did I deny, I did indicated PRCs probable involvement.
    Again out of rule to verify, nations does exhibits technologies to earn a market and so the expo, nations normally don't miss a chance to earn a market, regarding america F117 was something new to show it to the world, but engines and missiles with identical products in the market is not, so why not a picture of layout not yet?

    we will follow the development to know more.

    Even Jihad was not the way and we see what is happening around, IPRs are not meant only to make people rich they are ways to keep biz. alive, to encourage invention, to promote competition, this is not good and should not be encouraged.

    Movie piracy comes in mind, for a general person it might not be a big issue but it have lower the entertainment biz.

    lets see where we reach with all this stealing.
     
  14. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,744
    Likes Received:
    2,114
    do you understand what it means if a platform is 'mature'?
    it's not that it isn't mature, but my point is only when WS-10 was a mature engine and a well known engine, the Chinese revealed it.

    as you wish...

    Not disputing it, but not to give any side the benefit of the doubt... agreed?

    Well you answered it yourself really, babur will not be exported, no need to display it really, if it is just for satisfaction.... then we all know what they tend to do with such projects.

    Indeed but it may become a prime example of how it is ignored or bent.

    Well this is odd...
    I'm all for ingenuity, self sufficiency BUT for the time being while Pakistan builds it's defense industry, our defense needs must be fulfilled anyway possible.

    Having the country prepared for anything comes first, then comes the rest whenever and wherever there is room for it.
     
  15. TereBinLaden

    TereBinLaden Captain STAR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    264
    Nothing indicates Bubur as Pakistans self effort either.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page