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Pakistan to lease SSN from China ?

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Ankit Kumar 001, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    New Delhi: A Chinese Navy nuclear-powered attack submarine which docked at the Karachi harbour in May took aboard Pakistani naval officers and sailors to give them a first-hand glimpse of the operations of a nuclear submarine. This was not a simple case of access being given to a close military ally. The Indian Navy is convinced that it is just a matter of time before Islamabad leases a Chinese nuclear submarine. The Pakistan Navy personnel who were on the submarine may be part of their first team to train on Chinese nuclear submarines, it is believed.

    On Friday, NDTV broadcast images of an advanced 'Shang' class nuclear submarine which was placed, through a satellite image, at Karachi last year. The images were first spotted by a satellite imagery expert (@rajfortyseven) who posts on Twitter.

    Displacing 7,000 tonnes when it operates underwater, and armed with six torpedo tubes, the Shang class submarine is part of the latest generation of nuclear attack submarines designed and commissioned by China. The submarine also has the ability to fire cruise missiles, including the Babur missile that Pakistan yesterday claimed to test-fire off its coast - a claim that has been disregarded by the Indian Navy.

    The acquisition of a 'Shang' class submarine will have an impact on the Naval balance in the Indian Ocean, which is currently skewed heavily in favour of the Indian Navy.


    India's navy is significantly larger and more capable than its regional rival. Unlike conventional diesel electric submarines that Pakistan has been operating for decades, a nuclear attack submarine has practically unlimited endurance. Its nuclear reactor is unlikely to require refueling during the life of the submarine, which means the 'Shang' class submarine can theoretically operate indefinitely underwater, even though realistically, its functioning will be limited by the amount of food and supplies the submarine can carry for its crew. The mechanical reliability of key systems also limits the amount of time the submarine can be operated.

    The Pakistani acquisition of a 'Shang' class submarine is meant to counter the Indian Navy's 'Akula-2' class nuclear attack submarines which New Delhi has been leasing from Russia. Considered among the most powerful submarines of its class, the Akula-2 - named INS Chakra - has been leased for a period of 10 years and will be returned to Russia within four years, by which time the Navy will have acquired a second submarine of the same class on a lease, the terms of which were recently worked out between the two countries.

    Now for the first time, details are emerging on how the Indian Navy has been able to track the movement of Chinese submarines which first started operating in the Indian Ocean in 2013, a clear signal of how Beijing intends to expand its strategic reach to include areas of the Indian Ocean which New Delhi has typically considered its own backyard.

    The Chinese 'Shang' class submarine, which docked in Karachi, entered the Indian Ocean through the Malacca straits off Singapore between April 19 and 20. Picked up almost immediately by the Indian Navy's US-made Boeing P8-I maritime surveillance aircraft, the submarine - accompanied by a large 10,000 ton fleet support and replenishment tanker - was constantly tracked through its journey to Karachi.

    While operating to the South of the Bay of Bengal, P8-Is of the Navy dropped sonobuoys across the projected route of the submarine. Sonobuoys, which are small listening devices that transmit the sound of submarines to reconnaissance aircraft operating overhead, are key in detecting submarines.

    Interspersed with the 'passive' sonobuoys deployed by the P8-Is, were 'active' sonobuoys which ping the ocean with soundwaves which reflect off the surface of metallic objects like submarines. Using a combination of both sensors, the Navy's P8-Is were able to force the Chinese submarine into making evasive maneuvers. The exact location of the submarine was also passed on to India's own submarines which were also monitoring the movement of the 'Shang' and its support ship as it entered the Arabian Sea.

    The 'Shang' entered the Karachi harbour on May 19, its exact location constantly plotted by the Indian Navy's assets, which have determined that the sound radiated by the Shang class is higher than new generation American or Russian submarines which are considerably quieter and therefore tougher to detect. The 'Shang' and its support ship spent seven days in Karachi, leaving on May 26. It was during this period that Pakistani Navy sailors and officers were allowed access to one of the Chinese Navy's most sensitive assets. It's still unclear if the 'Shang' returned to Karachi to take on board the Pakistani Naval personnel or whether they were transferred to another vessel as the submarine proceeded south along the Indian peninsula before setting course for the Malacca straits.

    On June 14, the 'Shang' submarine exited the Indian Ocean region.

    Senior Navy officers have pointed out that the deployment of Chinese Navy submarines in the Indian Ocean coincides with active efforts to establish a ring of ports to strategically encircle India.

    Just day before yesterday, the Maldives leased China an island for 50 years at just 3 million dollars. Earlier, China had also invested heavily in the Ihaven atoll, the Northernmost island in the Maldives chain, which lies just south of India's Minicoy island, the southernmost Indian island in the Arabian Sea. Located on a key East-West shipping route, Ihaven could give the Chinese the possibility of berthing Naval ships and submarines very close to the Indian mainland in the near future.

    As significantly, China has secured an 80% share of the Hambantota deep sea port in Sri Lanka as well as land for a new industrial zone in the area. According to plans, land in this area will be ceded to Beijing for the next 99 years in exchange for $1.1 billion towards debt relief. Pakistan and China, meanwhile, continue to work closely on developing the strategically located Gwadar port, central to the $46 billion China-Pacific Economic Corridor (CPEC) that is under development. China also continues to expand its Naval base in Djibouti situated in the Horn of Africa. In August last year, Pakistan State Radio announced a deal to acquire eight Chinese conventional diesel-electric powered submarines and Bangladesh has just received two submarines, its first ever, from China.

    http://m.ndtv.com/world-news/pakist...lear-attack-submarines-ndtv-exclusive-1647370
     
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  2. thesolar65

    thesolar65 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Saw this on NDTV right now.
     
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  3. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I propose that India should go for as many Akulas as it can.

    The latest Type 093 version of PLAAN under fitting stage is said to be comparable to the best Viktor Class Version in noise , upgraded Akulas would be the best option considering desi SSN program is still some time away.
     
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  4. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Possible but not lease.. rather for security cover for CPEC and also act as opening a front against India..

    Nice this should change geo political equations quickly..
     
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  5. A_poster

    A_poster Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Really? In this current environment where Russia is a B***h of China!

    I say it is right time to go for Baracudda route, if we want a foreign submarine. Best one is to develop one at home.
     
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  6. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The only thing currently better than Akulas in service is 3 ["Experimental "] subs of USA and Astutes.

    And any other route will take time.

    Further , even today we have a Russian Vessel with a Russian Crew helping us out in SSBN trials.

    Its about Money. Only money is what concerns Russia.
     
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  7. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Baracudda will not happen , just that DCNS will be involved in Consultancy Services of desi SSN project.

    The Power Plant again going to come with good percentage of Russian Help here too.
     
  8. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Lease a base in Indian west coast for berthing rights for ACC and SSN from USA. Try it closer to Gujarat..

    That will be enough..

    In one shot you say that it's our mutual LSA agreement and otoh always the patrol path checks the CPEC, warships and SSN..

    And we also point to USA, look how we actively supported you so support us in geo political issues against China
     
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  9. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    We need to get one thing clear. India of today and future is simply too big to get much support from others. The recent discord in India - Russia relations is also due to this , had India been a bit smaller , with a bit less economic and military might , we would have been doing much more good friends and brothers in Arms stuff with Russia.

    The correct reply would be , get more Akulas , and send one of them to berth in Taiwan!

    Regular deployment to Vietnam would also be good , but nothing would hurt more than a SSN from India berthing in Taiwan.
     
  10. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    How long will the desi SSN take ?
     
  11. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Members here should treat Pakistan on the same level as China when it comes to military technology....

    That's because the Chinese will Grant them every piece of advance military technology they have...No matter if Pakistan can pay for it or not.... Pakistans Security is China's Responsibility...

    For the Pakistanis, Chinese Technology is as good as indigenous....They are unlikely to face any opposition from the Chinese....
    (Re-sell and stuff won't obviously be allowed....)

    To be Frank here....
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese gift them SLBM's...SSN's.....SSBN's..
    Stealth Frigates... Fighters...Etc.....



    PS : If you expect China to respect Intl. Treaties... Well... :lol:



    PPS : We can never be at war with Pakistan alone... China will always come to it's aid...... ALWAYS....
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  12. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Atleast 2024.
     
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  13. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    That's great.
     
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  14. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    10-15 Years....If there are no major Technological or Financial Challenges
     
  15. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    A review is to happen this year.

    If everything is ok, a go ahead will be given for a dedicated fabrication facility at SBC. This would take around 18-30 months. Mean while work will progress on design , if I assume that work on its power plant its already on , 2024 is the schedule when the first vessel should be launched.
     

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