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Pakistan's 5th generation aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by THE_MAGNIFICENT, Jul 26, 2010.

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  1. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    Having a latest Generation capabilities is good for confidence, but ultimately the things should work,
    For example the "latest" american plane F-35 has much lesser capabilities than F-22, which means
    a) F-22 is much capable fighter than F-35
    b) The price of F-22 is too high which the USAF cannot really afford and so they have more or less capped the price of fighter at about say 150 million
    c) Rather than take out some capabilities from F-22 to make it cheaper seems was not a viable option which would have made F-22 toothless tiger and so the USAF decided to have another plane which was funded by international customers and made purely for the "crowd"
    d) USAF will have F-35 as Strike aircaft, but frankly on paper does not seem to be as potent fighter as F-22 but its much cheaper alternative, further it can come in STOVL and VTOL ability which makes it a carrier aircraft too which can compliment F/A-18 presently..

    Americans have spaced their requirements which is not immediate, but the other countries like UK have put most of their eggs in F-35 basket, they even took out eggs from Eurofighter basket and put them in F-35 basket which as per many analyst is NOT A FIGHTER BUT A STRIKE AIRCRAFT, so its another version of F-117 which did not have A2A capability. Wonder why USAF gives it F designation when it should be A/F-35
     
  2. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    ^^^Because your assumption of it being designed as a dedicated strike fighter is wrong. JSF is just a tag, not a product description.

    True, it has advanced strike capabilities. But it is ultimately intended to be a multirole fighter. They've been aggrandizing its A2A combat ability for ages, proudly announcing that in simulations, the F-35 achieves a 4:1 kill ratio against Su-35s. They've got that new AN/AAQ-37 DAS system for what they claim to be unparalleled situational awareness (which actually does seem to work). Its radar also gives it long A2A detection ranges, allowing it to shoot and run. In fact, this aircraft comes closer to your Big Bird concept than any other aircraft, except for the stealth, size, and supercruise aspect.
     
  3. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    moongerilal ke haseen sapne:rofl:
    Ist induct j10 then think about 5th gen
     
    sunny6611 and Steel like this.
  4. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I could say the same about you guys!
    first induct MMRCA, Super Su-30, LCA Mk2, before starting on AMCA and FGFA...

    such arguments are useless!
    We have the right to talk about our procurements, as Chinese deliver much quicker then Russian/Western counterparts.

    The fact is that CAC have a J-2X project up and running and J-20. PAF is interested in Chinese 5th gen.
    And according to sources such as Huzigeng and Pupu.... These 5th gen will be offered to PAF when a serious order for FC-20 has been placed...
    Whereas some sources claim that PAF has seen the blueprints for J-2X and are pleased with the project and may jump in at any time.
     
  5. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    So, seems my Big Bird concept does seem to have need and an equivalent available
    Thank you :p
    Also one query, when the Americans have their Plane competetions, they chose the winner but the losing projects do not seem to be so bad, why dont we develop the losing projects? Just my view :p
     
  6. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Dunno, doubt they'd give us access to the "looser" of their projects anyway. Though I really wouldn't mind seeing an aircraft based on the YF-23 in IAF colours :lol:
     
  7. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    I second that,
    Is it possible that we ask the designer of YF-23 to design the plane for us, I think that way, we might have our hands on two pies
    PAK-FA (FGFA) and also take a step towards America by asking for a plane which they themself rejected YF-23 and to modify it as per our needs

    Many say that YF-23 was much better than F-22 in many aspects. so maybe why not? Maybe there are chances of cost overruns but good chances that we can get a better plane on par or even better than F-35 (maybe)
     
  8. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Well, the designers of the YF-23 were McDonald Douglas (Northrop had a stake in it too, I believe), who were eventually bought over by Boeing. Boeing went on to provide parts and design expertise for the F-22, after the YF-23 design was rejected. Seeing as some of the technology used in the YF-23 made it onto the F-22, it is highly unlikely that the US would even consider a request by India to modify the YF-23 for IAF use. They're quite obstinate about protecting ATF stealth secrets. India isn't exactly their closest ally anyway, I doubt even offering to fund the project entirely would get the US to change their mind.

    Besides, the PAK FA project is in the ATF class. Waaaay to expensive for the IAF to maintain two hellishly expensive high performance 5th generation fighters at once...

    ^^^From what I've read, both aircraft exceeded ATF parameters. The YF-22 needed TVC to achieve agility points, but the YF-23 managed without TVC. The YF-23, on the whole, was supposedly a much more complicated aircraft. It used relatively more modern electronics, more complicated engineering to achieve a greater degree of LO than the YF-22, and was slippery enough to be faster than the YF-22 while supercruising. Like the GE YF-120, the YF-23 lost out because of how complicated it was.

    I'm geting all this from what I've read about the ATF, though; you'd have to ask someone like DeathByChocalate for details.
     
  9. Vidyanshu

    Vidyanshu Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    mki is best
     
  10. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    IMO , PAF will probably work on a smaller single engine fighter with reduced RCS semi stealth and AESA radar, much of the development on j20 might find its way into the pakistan specified fighter. It might use similar AL31 derivative engine from J10 called WS## something and will sell it in the global market for aroun 50-65 Mils making it another JF17 for the next generation of aircraft. Operational reliability and mission capability will be over-hyped and it would be declared the 9th wonder of the world on p.def and youtube.
     
  11. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    PAF will be looking for a 5th gen probably around 2015, and if the state of our economy at the time allows us, you may see Pakistan hoping on board a Chinese 5th gen project after 2015, orders or plans to order will probably be around 2018 at the very earliest.

    Some suggest a 5th gen project similar to the FC-1 project, named the J-2X has already commenced. Can't confirm this as of yet.
    Likely that if such a project exist, PAF will be seen as the most likely customer, and PAF may just take part in it.

    And likely this project will share a lot with the J-20.
     
  12. ashoka

    ashoka FULL MEMBER

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    Hmmm.. let me think ,they are buying current military equipment based by renting their lands to US , ever wondered how they will manage to build and then operate a 5th generation aircraft? :rofl:
     
  13. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    All purchases made by PAF so far have been funded by us.

    No-one said anything about an indigenous project, just minute contribution in a Chinese project and the purchasing of a variant of a 5th gen Chinese fighter similar to how the FC-20 went down... a few PAF representatives at AVIC, and a tailor made variant for PAF.

    Operating a 5th gen?
    Please tell me all about how you'd operate a 5th gen, as a matter of fact why don't you enlighten me as to how you operate a plane...

    p.s. being able to play Hawkx or Ace combat on your console doesn't count.
     
  14. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    Are there any pictures or Artist drawings for the picture? or would be it designed based on J-20
     
  15. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    I do not want to be rude, I am just curious
    How does the concept look like?
    F-22 ? F-23 ? F-35? J-20 ? PAKFA or Mix.

    Frankly most people agree that the future is UCAV. so whats the point in so many countries going for a manned aircraft.
    Would it not be better if Designers went for a dual system, where by the same plane is designed both as manned and unmanned system? So, then when going on mission the systems can go in pairs, manned and unmanned together where unmanned aircraft takes the maximum risk and the manned aircraft takes the safer options,
    Also if one is shot down, the other system can dstroy the plane to avoid technology falling into enemy hands.
     
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