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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    What was first said:
    http://www.ibtimes.co.in/rafale-fig...al-technologies-lower-prices-part-deal-693001
     
  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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  3. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    -Chose to talk abut the KC-46 first :p
    -Outstanding requirement for 200-300 MMRCA according to Boeing (not clear if this is just for IAF or IAF+IN)
     
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  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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  5. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    http://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-se...-production-de-radars-pour-rafale-2064759.php

    Thales doubles production of radars for Rafale
    ANNE BAUER The 14/02 at 06:00
    Share by mail Print
    The site of Etrelles (570 employees) hired last year 140 people to face the acceleration of the delivery rates of Rafale. - Photo Frank Perry / AFP
    Dassault's export sales for hunters also allow Thales to re-launch and upgrade its radar research.

    At Thales, the Rafale export contracts are welcome. Within the group, it is assumed that about 23% of the value of the aircraft is "made in Thales", including the front radar, located in the hunter's "nose", and the "electronic warfare" Spectra ", which provides the essential detection and interference functions of a military aircraft. Technological jewelry manufactured in particular in Etrelles, in Brittany, and in Bordeaux.

    Patron of the Etrelles factory, which intervenes upstream of the production of the Rafale with the manufacture of the infinitely small (micro-components), Eric Normand specifies that the site hired last year 140 people to make In the face of accelerated Rafale delivery speeds. Thus, the Etrelles plant has organized to deliver the active radar antenna for two Rafale per month instead of one. The plant in this small Breton town (570 employees) is the smallest step in French strategic independence: the electronic component, which, once incorporated in maps, makes up the thousands of sensors of the RBE2 radar of the Rafale. In the clean rooms, workers manipulate 25 micron gold wires, three times smaller than a hair to make the radar reception and emission cards. A fine watchmaking work that requires more than one year per antenna and which has saved some beautiful local SMEs in a sector devastated by the Chinese competition: electronics.

    Electronic Scanning
    Once completed, the antenna consisting of hundreds of transceiver modules is sent to Bordeaux, where it is then calibrated and tested for several months before the factory can deliver to Dassault the final product: the RBE2 electronic scanning radar .. On the new Thales campus (2,600 employees, 200 million euros in investment) located opposite the Dassault facilities in Mérignac, Bruno Carrara, head of airborne systems, confirms that the recent successes of the Rafale give radar research a new start. The RBE2, which will equip the Rafales delivered to Egypt, Qatar or India, marks a significant advance compared to traditional radars, with mechanical movements.

    In its latest version of 2012, the RBE2, the fruit of fourteen years of research, makes it possible to detect 50% better. "Radar is the most sophisticated equipment on the airplane, which allows us to see as far as possible, to calculate the missile trajectory accordingly, in environments whose temperatures can vary from -40 degrees Celsius to +70 degrees, " says Bruno Carrara. A research that allowed Thales to develop another surveillance radar, the Searchmaster, to be fitted on any type of aircraft. As of next month, Thales is starting production in series of this radar. Qatar has just ordered it and other countries are interested in it.

    Anne Bauer, Les Echos
     
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  6. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Will need larger Rafale order for true Make in India: Dassault CEO

    BANGALORE: France is in discussions to assist India with its next generation Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft (AMCA) as part of the offset obligations of the Rafale fighter jet deal, Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said. However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India at a `competitive level' the senior executive has said.

    Answering a query by ET, Trappier said that Dassault is ready to assist India with its fighter jet programs. "We have already discussed with Indian agencies and have proposed that our capabilities be integrated. We have started the discussions as part of the offset framework," Trappier said, adding that the company is keen to partner with India for the project.

    The Dassault CEO made a strong pitch for the Rafale for an upcoming Indian Navy requirement for carrier borne jets, saying that the Rafale is the only jet with dedicated air force and naval versions. "We want to continue beyond the 36 jets on order. The requirement is around 200 jets for India and a naval order as well," he said.

    Dassault however believes that the current order of 36 jets would not be sufficient to transfer high end manufacturing or technology to India. Trappier said that extra orders would need to be placed by 2017-18 to come up with a larger Make in India plan that would involve shifting heavy work.

    Responding to questions on why the company chose Reliance Defence to be a major offset partner, Dassault said that its main Indian partner in the past- HAL - was busy with several projects like the Light Combat Aircraft and the choice was to go with a new entrant into the defence field. "We were told that HAL was fully booked. We talked to Reliance and they were very keen to create such capabilities in India. They have a track record and the financial capability as well," Trappier said.

    In December, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said that India needs much more than the 36 jets on order, without specifying the number that the air force has recommended to the government.

    Saying that India requires 200-250 more aircraft in the middle weight category of fighters that the Rafale falls into, the air chief said that he would like a much larger number of the planes under the Make in India initiative.

    Global aviation giants like Dassault, Airbus, Boeing and Saab are closely watching Indian moves to select a combat aircraft for a new fighter production line. Raha’s comments that the major requirement is for middle weight category fighters would weigh heavily on the number of competitors that make the cut.

    Read more at:
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

    @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @vstol jockey
     
  8. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    same news by Ajay Banerjee

    Need more numbers to make Rafale in India, says Dassault Aviation CEO
    In race for fighter jets for IAF and Navy


    [​IMG]
    Eric Trappier


    Ajay Banerjee

    Tribune News Service

    Bengaluru, February 15

    Even as delivery of the newly acquired Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter aircraft, the Rafale, is scheduled to commence from September 2019, the makers of Rafale, the Dassault Aviation France, are expecting a bigger order to supplement their ‘make in India’ efforts.

    Last year, India ordered 36 twin-engine Rafale jets for 7.8 billion euros, the first major induction since the Sukhoi-30 jets first started coming in batches since 1997.

    Éric Trappier, CEO of Dassault Aviation, while speaking on the sidelines of the 11th edition of the Aero-India said: “We are pushing for more orders. The existing order of 36 is not big enough to have transfer of technology. Our plan is to be in India. India should be ready to be part of the global supply market.”

    The company, he said, was in race for the additional twin-engined fighter jets needed by the IAF as well as the Navy requirement of 57 jets for ship-deck-based operations. On Tuesday, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had announced that 300-400 jets (single-engine and twin-engine) are needed by the IAF over the next 10 years.

    On being asked what could be an ideal number for making in India, Trappier pointed to the original tender that was for 126 twin-engine jets. “It will be good if we get an order of some 200, including 36 of the existing IAF order and the Navy needs,” Trappier said in an interaction with a select media group. We need to know how many more we get. On being asked if what will be cost reduction for India, Trappier said, “That will be fresh negotiation.”


    “We are today signing a joint venture with Reliance (Anil Ambani group) for the make in India for military and well and civil aircraft,” Trappier said. “We have chosen Reliance as our existing partner, the HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), was busy with existing commitments,” the company CEO said.

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...-india-says-dassault-aviation-ceo/364474.html

    +++
    So what Trappier said
    200-36-57 = 107 odd and what other media claimed - 200 jets needed for MII .. :fighting1:

    Is it not clear that such a total order is needed when time and again we have said here that Merignac line needs to be given orders in order to setup the manufacturing line in India for any meaningful tech localisation as part of MII...

    @Abingdonboy @vstol jockey @Agent_47 @Gessler @randomradio @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @BON PLAN @CNL-PN-AA @Ankit Kumar 001 @Hellfire @nair @MilSpec

    Falcon line gng to Reliance.. its clear as well
     
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  9. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Source Based News

    RAFALE offset program some pointers

    Safranised Kaveri
    1. 5 Kaveri Engines have been made so far which are operational.
    2. These engines are flown as part of experimental test bed in Russia
    3. The chief problem in the engine is when the engine is pushed for using higher power, there is a increase in noise level which is unexplainable.
    4. The increase in noise level has not been able to be rectified and hence the entire performance envelope of the engine is undetermined.
    5. The effect in power increase to higher noise to performance has also not been mapped.
    6. For this only Rafale offset has Safran Snecma coming in this program.
    7. As of today the first phase of the project is well underway.
    8. Snecma is studying Kaveri properly and will work in modifications to meet our requirements.
    9. It extends to CERTIFICATION and FITMENT into LCA as well
    10. First LCA with Safranised Kaveri is expected in 2019.

    Further scope defined under offsets
    1. DA will participate in Next Generation LCA program and will work on design and systems, sub systems.
    2. The further scope involves AMCA, a UCAV and Ghatak engine as well.
    3. The scope defined clearly involves
      • Design
      • Logistical Maintainence
      • Software
      • Sub systems.

    @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar 001 @nair @Agent_47 @Picard @Picdelamirand-oil @vstol jockey @Gessler @randomradio @MilSpec @BON PLAN @CNL-PN-AA @Robinhood Pandey @Levina @Hellfire @GuardianRED
    @halloweene

    Broadly all points are hinted.. of course won't go into detail.. a part of this discussion is planned for publication in a magazine..

    PS- Indian Navy chief clarified during an interview to the same magazine.. the the new Navy aircrafts are gng to IAC 1 and IAC2 as well..
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Kaveri engine is also likely to be created in modules like M88. Safran has already probably localised the problem and a slightredesign of compressor might be in the offing.
    CNS forgot to mention that IAC-2 may not be INS Vishaal but a resurrection of INS Viraat.
     
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  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Current MKI fleet availability ranges from 65-68%:

     
  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    (^ so the current DPSA fleet will be shrinking;current Jag fleet is >140 in number, means the IAF needs a strike fighter in large numbers ;) )
     
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  13. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    You remember bro when I told it's just 60 odd in our earlier forum and many pointed that it's 120+.. the ageing effect is way too much.. even these 61 won't do frontline mission especially since a part of this 61 was selected (18 to be precise) for strategic role.. and another 12 are Marines ..

    Thus the frontline DPSA needs will get more urgent and prioritised.. don't have a choice.. the gap will become huge unless we fill up quick..
     
  14. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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  15. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    If component can be start manufacturing in 2018 then a new plane fron MII plant can virtually rollout starting 2021 surely..In fact from the start of making the components , directly it can start supplying to Indian chain and rest procured from France to complete the bird..
    There will be more JVs and lots of jobs bcz part of the ecosystem involves the Tier 2,3 and 4 set up which will require the JV route to setup shop and pass on the technology to the ecosystem..

    Its the same ecosystem as indicated before in previous posts which will also become part of LCA supply chain augmenting the overall MIC capabilities...
     
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