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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Inked contracts : 1) Egypt, 2) Qatar, 3) India.

    Deliveries : 1) Egypt (6 delivered) 2) Qatar (2018), 3) India (2019)

    So export begun with Egypt.
     
  2. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Modi declared intent to procure 36 Rafales back in April 2015.

    However, Egypt signed the contract back in February 2015, two months before Modi's trip to Paris and surprise announcement of short-circuiting the interminably-delayed MMRCA to go for a direct G2G procurement of 36.

    It's the Qatar contract that was signed soon after the Modi visit, in May 2015.
     
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  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Snippets directly from what Reliance Defence has shared with few institutional investors and research firms

    upload_2017-3-16_14-52-18.png

    cost per aircraft is touted at Rs 8 Bn or Rs 800 Crs or USD 121 Mn or Euro 113 Mn

    Long term plan for delivery target is 18/annum


    Thats the nitty gritty of the MII project

    Risk and opportunities cited are
    1. MOD /GOI procurement based on geo strategic relations
    2. Previous experience with vendors /OEMs who have supplied to IAF and if IAF is operating any system made by them previously.
    3. Technology being offered to us and how is that superior to what is already either provided to our neighboring adversaries
    4. limited capex budget availability might mean delay as existing assets would be upgraded first and decision of such new capex may be delayed with no timeline clarity

    Some more points

    • Reliance Dassault JV estimates the the life‐cycle expenditure of Rafale fighter Aircraft (3‐5x of original acquisition costs).
    • Estimation of opportunity is to the tune of Rs 1,050bn.
    • Deal of 36 mandates offset component and money that has to be invested by the company into the Indian Defense and Aerospace sector of ~Rs 295bn.
    • While part of offsets will go towards technology acquisition by DRDO, major chunk will go in to setting up the manufacturing facilities in India.
    • In addition to servicing the Rafale deal, Reliance Dassault JV would operate with a view to focus on exports in the long run.
    • This JV is likely to be operationalised by mid of FY2018 with its main manufacturing unit at Nagpur (currently works is going‐on at their 100 acre facility).
    @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @halloweene @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 001 @Gessler @CNL-PN-AA
     
  4. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    So more Rafale coming??? Or not coming @Hellfire
    I'm confused now :fighting1:
     
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  5. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Honestly, after spending such an amount of money in upgrades, modifications, infrastructure, simulators, training etc. Would be totally out of logic without further purchase.
     
  6. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    They are not coming. I maintain this contrarian approach.

    Logic dictates that we will have commonality of platform finally with Rafale in both IAF and IN. But India is NOT EQUAL to logic!

    Hence, my only base for claiming no Rafale is that the Indians are grossly stupid. There is no other base.

    All indicators indicate the introduction of equal number of Rafales as Su-30 MKIs held with IAF.
     
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I'm afraid, with time spending, that India has no real other choice.
    I hope Dassault and french govt to be aware enough so as to make appropriate offer (a win win game).
     
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  8. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    Is there any breakdown of this figure bro? What will be the costs of the EH and DH? And is the NH/M expected to be made in India or will they come entirely from France?

    + I assume these costs are for the Indian-specific version with relevent upgrades applied? If so that is a STEAL!

    Wow, an entire SQN per year! Not bad at all, but this is the minimum India needs to attest its pitiful SQN strength that it only going to decline further.

    Any indication when RIL/DA are targeting to meet this capacity? 2nd/3rd/4th year of production line running? Highly unlikely they could meet it from the outset.


    16-20 LCA/year, 14-18 MKI/year and 18 Rafale/year from 2021/2 is going to be a massive help to fill in the considerable gaps left by the MiG-21, MiG-27 and Jags that will be phased out starting from 2019.

    LOL, so bloody true bro! If there is an obtuse and illogical decsion to be made, Indians will find it.
     
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  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    As I'm sure @Hellfire would agree, when would such compulsions alter Indian thinking? The reality of the situation is entirely lost on the decsion makers in India sadly.

    Indeed and also I would hope both sides are able to see that the benefits for all extend far beyond this deal. This deal could lay the groundwork for far greater cooperation in the future and a landmark relationship that will be hugely benefical for both nations in many areas
     
  10. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    My personal opinion, and here it is strictly my personal opinion, is that India needs to wrap up a very strong and strategic partnership including and/or not limited to purely commercial business with France at the earliest.

    Historically the French have stood by us even in the aftermath of 1998 Nuclear Tests, preceding that, their commitment to India has abundantly been covered over a number of months prior in this forum and elsewhere.

    The advent of an ultra radicalised islamist threat is one, which India and France can commonly identify themselves with. The threat to democratic value system and to individual rights and freedom, need to be defended in a strong and mutually beneficial and supportive partnership
     
  11. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Not really bro but roughly in talks they said about 80% Single pilot and 20% Twin Pilot types. The final figure will be based on IAF orders of course. They took 28 Single and 8 double as a bench mark to estimate such a break up.

    Yes, its Indian specific model price with custom stuff+ some planned Rafale upgrades which are included in this as well.

    The stabilized production is expected to be reached by 3rd year so first 2 will see Low Initial production Rate.

    I still wait for F42 the next evolved version of F35 for India. :biggthumpup:

    The risks they quoted are pretty much in the money. and thats why all logic will probably fail unless GOI mitigates them good..
     
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  12. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    Whoa, and the F-18 will be offered to India at 10-15% more cost with maybe 80-85% the capabilties of the Rafale.


    Deal needs to be signed ASAP then.

    The only risk I can see that will really affect this is the CAPEX issue and the proposed non-lapsable fund will surely help address this :respect:
     
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  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Mission ready with low operating costs


    1 – Built-in supportability

    The RAFALE supportability and mission readiness claims are supported by the undisputed track record of the earlier generation of French fighters, such as the combat-provenMIRAGE 2000.

    From the early beginning of the development phase, the French MoD assigned very stringent “integrated logistic support” (ILS) requirements to the RAFALE programme. “Computer aided design” (CAD) with the Dassault Systèmes CATIA software suite, concurrent engineering and bold technological choices ultimately produced an ILS system that exceeds the original supportability requirements.

    The following examples, selected from a range of unique and innovative features, demonstrate the advance in reliability, accessibility and maintainability brought by the RAFALE:

    • Based on 20 years plus of experience gained on the MIRAGE 2000, integrated testability of the Weapon Delivery and Navigation System (WDNS) has proven itself. Accordingly, it has been decided on the RAFALE to extend it to all aircraft systems. Thanks to accurate and comprehensive testability features, it allows targeted replacements to be made on the flight line, down to electronic circuit boards and specific components.
    • Human factors engineering work has been conducted with CATIA in order to ensure the accessibility of the components within aircraft bays, so that all flight line operations can be carried out by a single technician. Special attention has been paid to minimizing the duration of these operations and the occurrence of errors.
    • The centralized armament safety system makes all safety pins and last chance / end-of-runway actions unnecessary, minimizing the risk of errors and accidents, and contributing to achieve an unbeatable “turn around time” (TAT).
    • Precision manufacturing techniques together with the use of CATIA eliminate time-consuming boresighting procedures following cannon, head-up display (HUD) or radar exchanges.
    • The groundbreaking design of the M88 suppresses the requirement for a check on a dedicated engine test bench before reinstalling it back on the aircraft.
    • Deployments on forward operating bases, including austere airfields, have been made easier by keeping ground support equipment to a minimum :
    • The RAFALE is fitted with an on-board oxygen generation system (OBOGS) which suppresses the need for liquid oxygen re-filling. Ground support equipment for the production and transportation of oxygen is no longer required
    • Optronics are cooled by a closed-loop nitrogen circuit, which negates the need for a dedicated nitrogen supply chain.
    • The built-in auxiliary power unit (APU) makes engine start-up possible even when no ground power cart is available.
    • All ground support equipment is compact and foldable in order to be easily transportable by air. It can be used without external power. And only two types of carriages and cradles are necessary to perform all armament loading / unloading.
    • All these maintainability features have been thoroughly assessed and validated by French Navy and French Air Force maintainers.
    2 – An affordable high-tech fighter

    Thanks to its outstanding reliability, the RAFALE has lower maintenance costs.

    • Its unique maintenance concept results in a lighter scheduled maintenance plan with less man-hours and a smaller number of maintenance technicians.
    • For all its service life, the RAFALE does not have to leave its operational base for maintenance purposes. It does away with costly and time-consuming airframe and engine depot level inspections required on other types of fighter aircraft, with “shop replaceable units” (SRUs) the only items to be shipped for maintenance / repair.
    • A case in point is the modular M88 engine, made up of 21 modules: all maintenance and repair can be done by returning nothing more than modules or discrete parts to the depot or to the manufacturer. No balancing procedure and no run-up check are necessary before returning the engine to service.
    • Failure-prone systems have been eliminated early on in the design process:
      • there is no airbrake
      • the air intakes have no moving parts
      • the ac generators do not have any constant speed drive (CSD)
      • and the refuelling probe is fixed in order to avoid any deployment or retraction problem.
    This results in reduced spares inventory, less man-hours and less ground support equipment.

    Another source of reduction of the required spares inventory comes from the constant standardisation approach during the design phase,
    • The same part number is used at various locations on the airframe: this is made possible with precision airframe
    • Manufacturing which allows to suppress fitting and boresighting operations when installing airframe components.
    • Left-hand and right-hand parts are identical wherever applicable (i.e. foreplanes, FCS actuators).
    • Miscellaneous parts such as screws and electronic modules have also been included into the standardisation effort.
    • The required spares inventory is further reduced by adapting the troubleshooting procedures to allow the exchange of electronic circuit boards within “line replaceable units” (LRUs), rather than exchanging the LRUs: this applies to the RBE2 radar, the SPECTRA EW suite, the MDPU mission computer and to other equipment as well.
    • Special attention has been paid to accessibility issues: for instance, the side-opening canopy facilitates the replacement of the ejection seat, so that two technicians can perform its removal in 10 minutes only.
    • No heavy test equipment is needed around the RAFALE on the flight line: All checks at this level can be run by maintenance technicians on the aircraft itself.
    • No test bench is needed for the M88 engine, a remarkable first in fighter aircraft maintenance.
    • Based on significant experience in corrosion protection for carrier-based aircraft (SUPER ETENDARD) and maritime patrol aircraft (ATLANTIC 1/ ATLANTIQUE 2), DASSAULT AVIATION has developed new advanced corrosion protection processes which help drive down the cost of maintenance of the RAFALE: corrosion issues discovered during maintenance being the perfect “show stopper” which exceeds spending targets and delays the return of aircraft to service in the most unpredictable way.
    http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/rafale/mission-ready-with-low-operating-costs/
     
  14. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It seems that Indonesia is back :rafale:
     
  15. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Do tell. Perhaps make a thread over there?
     
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