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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You explain to me how you can put the same motor in a smaller, lighter, less draggy missile, air-launch it from 600mph at 40,000ft and get less range than the heavier missile when ground-launched.
     
  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We are not in the subject, we are not here to swallow the rantings of BMD.
     
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  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Because you can't offer a rational explanation.
     
  4. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There is nothing rational to compare ground to air parameters to support an air to air scenario.
    There is nothing rational discussing something committed by the manufacturer.
    There is nothing rational discussing with you, who were banned several times from most of western forum and who is here like a refugees... just enjoying the freedom of speech of this forum and using it to troll.

    We are not discussing with you, we are just trying to make sure that people who read this forum are well informed.
     
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  5. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Of course there is, there are several AAMs which can also be ground-launched, e.g. MICA and AMRAAM. And when air-launched their range increases by a factor of >3. Yet you think the same physics doesn't apply to ASRAAM for some reason.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Are you kidding me? The MICA is a lot faster and has far more range.

    The range of the SLAMRAAM on the NASAMS is less than CAMM according to brochures. Does that mean the AMRAAM also has lesser range than the ASRAAM?

    Don't make facts up and then emboss it on whatever you think agrees with your opinion.

    You've gone off topic for far too long.
     
  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I am not interested by such comparaison but I am interested by Rafale deal. If you want to discuss such topic you can create a new thread for that but try to do not pollute this thread with off topic.
     
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  8. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    So how come VL MICA is only quoted at 'up to 20km', whereas CAMM is quoted at >25km.

    http://www.mbda-systems.com/camm-solution/camm/
    http://www.mbda-systems.com/ground-based-air-defence/vl-mica/

    ASRAAM has a larger volume than MICA but a lower surface area and boat tail and lighter warhead. 166mm vs 160mm.

    Well that should put things in perspective then. You might also check out the tail chase range of AMRAAM at sea level and then compare with the ASRAAM's 5+km over the shoulder shot at low altitude.
     
  9. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Because the facts don't say what you want them too.

    Missile A
    Weight - 99kg
    Area - A
    Cd - x
    Motor - y
    Launch vehicle speed - 0 mph
    Launch vehicle altitude - 0 ft
    Launch altitude air density - 1.225kg/m^3

    Missile B
    Weight - 88kg
    Area - 0.9A
    Cd - 0.9x
    Motor - y
    Launch vehicle speed - 600 mph
    Launch vehicle altitude - 50,000 ft
    Launch altitude air density - 0.1948kg/m^3


    Which missile has the greater kinematic range? This is basic physics.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  10. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    And how come AMRAAM is quoted as up to 25Km? Does that mean it is inferior to the ASRAAM? Why aren't you using your 'physics' and 'logic' here?

    You don't know a thing about these missiles, so why the silly assumptions?

    The missile performance degrades very rapidly as it climbs. Both MICA and CAMM perform the best at less than 10Km. Anything above that is simply a number nobody really cares about. You are not going to kill anything above 15Km with these missiles. For that you need the Akash.

    If you really want a high performance quick reaction SAM, then you don't buy the MICA-VL or the CAMM, you buy the SPYDER. You get multiple missiles, seeker, warhead, speeds and maintenance options.
     
  12. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    MICA has a greater range than ASRAAM, that's basic factual reality, confirmed by actual tests that were performed for real in the real world. Sorry you can't accept that, but it's true, and now shut up.

    Also CAMM missiles are ejected from their launchers before they even start their engines, while a MICA VL has to get out of its launcher by itself. You can't compare figures from CAMM and MICAVL and extrapolate anything meaningful from this to ASRAAM and MICA.
     
  13. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    SLAMRAAM is rated at 33km.

    http://www.deagel.com/Surface-to-Air-Missiles/SL-AMRAAM_a001164005.aspx

    I agree on altitude, these missile are designed for anti-AShM, anti-cruise missile, anti-munition and for use against battlefield rockets. Although obviously helicopters and low flying attack aircraft would be easy prey.
     
  14. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    It can't be true I'm afraid. It's mathematically impossible.

    MICA
    Air-launched - >67km
    Ground-launched - 20km

    SLAMRAAM
    Air-launched - 120km
    Ground-launched - 33km
    http://www.deagel.com/Surface-to-Air-Missiles/SL-AMRAAM_a001164005.aspx

    ASRAAM
    Air-launched - ?km
    Ground-launched - >25km

    Based on this, ASRAAM range would be 80+km when air launched.

    Missile A
    Weight - 99kg
    Area - A
    Cd - x
    Motor - y
    Launch vehicle speed - 0 mph
    Launch vehicle altitude - 0 ft
    Launch altitude air density - 1.225kg/m^3

    Missile B
    Weight - 88kg
    Area - 0.9A
    Cd - 0.9x
    Motor - y
    Launch vehicle speed - 600 mph
    Launch vehicle altitude - 50,000 ft
    Launch altitude air density - 0.1948kg/m^3

    Which missile has the greater kinematic range? This is basic physics.

    www.thinkdefence.co.uk/uk-complex-weapons/common-anti-air-modular-missile

    [​IMG]

    50km stated.

     
  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Does forthcoming Russian K-30 look like a MICA or an ASRAAM? Wonder why?

    [​IMG]
     

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