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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    RFP was clear enough, it was Dassault which hid tons of costs while always promising 100% TOT, none of which were finally on the table, that number was brought down to 70% and the cost of which was dramatic to say the least. Dassault refused to take full responsibility of fighters coming from HAL even while majority of the part of hidden costs were exactly for the same tooling and machinery used in the French line. Sure, the MRCA process was not exactly stellar but if the RFP was not acceptable to begin with why participate in the first place? Dassault only got this G2G contract because Reliance got involved since the beginning and HAL was deliberately to be sidelined during the MRCA process. Late in the MRCA process we found out that Rafale was not exactly the L-1 due to all the hidden costs that suddenly came up after they were declared L-1.
     
  2. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    U do know that the MMRCA is 2 part - the actual evaluation by the IAF and the negotiation by the GoI, you did know this yes or no? and it is because of this evaluation that the rafale was L1, its was the negotiation that took long as it should be as 126 frames isn't a small no. and there is MORE to any negotiation than just the aircrafts! SO in the end the MMRCA played its part.

    The Scorpene delays is well documented, simply saying "making of the french" without anything to back it up - is a false argument
     
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  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LOL .... In declaring L1, the IAF takes everything into consideration including operation Cost!... there is no such Thing as hidden cost!... if you have such info on such , pls show this.

    Second, What stop the GoI after seeing such hidden cost to simply stop such negotiation and start talks with L2?? .. isn't the GoI strong enough to so?? ... Case and point the UAE Govt stop negotiation for the Rafale when their requirements wasn't accepted.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's sadly the question that the PM should answer and Dassault certainly should send him some bottles of wine for that gift.
     
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  5. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    LMAO, Seems like you have been asleep during the whole MRCA process, suggest to look up all issues that popped up after Rafale was declared L1 in 2012, MRCA process got cancelled early 2015 after the hidden costs popped up in the discussions during 2013-2014. It was mid 2014 by when the UPA was looking at ballooning costs of over 30 Billion and with impending elections, decision regarding MRCA was differed to the next Govt. As said, by mid 2014 MRCA was a steaming pile of crap. When did the GOI actually demonstrate strength to you, even the present Modi Govt. though certainly a better Govt. than the spineless UPA Govt. is still a pussy cat govt.
     
  6. Immanuel

    Immanuel 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Scorpene delays stem from contractual mistakes and lack of scrutiny and when there is lack of scrutiny, the French came in and screwed us.

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/12/scorpene-project-snagged-in-government.html

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2007/12/mod-shipyards-cry-for-long-term.html

    Directly blaming orgs. like HAL, MDL won't solve shit, the true inefficiency lies at MOD and thieving vendors like Armaris or Dassault will always take advantage of these inefficiencies in babudom.

    MRCA being 2 part has nothing do with it. The way L-1 was derived was incorrect based on subdued figures provided during the commercial bid. It was first declared that as per commercial bid, each Rafale based on LCC was 5 million cheaper than EF. Later they found Rafale was actually more expensive.
     
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  7. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    With immature non working Block 3FR6 sofware. With datafusion not working, with not fixed issues of helmet, with high resonance phenomena in transsonic area, with no definitive fix for engine, without fix etc.
    So yes they will officially have the FOC supposed standard, but not FOC. FOC will be for milestone C aka AFTER goevernments tests (T&T). You should take time and read last Gilmore's report. It is official and very interesting read. Want the link?
     
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  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The blocking ambiguities came mainly from HAL, which was concerned only with the necessary industrial investments instead of quantifying manufacturing hours. They only inflated the estimates of French industrialists unlike other Indian industrialists more "professional"
     
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  9. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    F-35 and F-22 train with Eurofighter and Rafale In the US, the US Air Force, the Royal Air Force and the French Air Force have a common air combat. The F-35A Lightning II is also participating in "Atlantic Trident" this time.

    The exercise with the latest state-of-the-art combat aircraft designs from the participating countries is currently being carried out at the Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Virginia. The organization has taken over the 1st Fighter Wing stationed in Langley.

    This time, special attention is given to the so-called A2AD scenario (Anti-Access / Area Denial). The initial situation here is that the opponent first has the upper hand and thus blocks the penetration into his airspace. As opponents are F-15E Strike Eagle and T-38 Talon of the US Air Force.

    The fighter jets are supported by the fuel planes, such as the KC-10 Extender of the US Air Force and the French C-135. A total of 225 US, 175 British and 150 French soldiers participated in the exercise. In addition to the A2AD practice, the Patrouille de France and the F-22 Raptor Demo Team demonstrate their skills. The exercise lasts from April 12 to 28, 2017. In December 2015, the exercise was held for the first time, still without the F-35.

    http://m.flugrevue.de/militaerluftf...-trainieren-mit-eurofighter-und-rafale/720814
     
  10. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Do you know that any negotiations / contracts involve atleast 2 parties. Do you think this is the first contract the MoD has signed? using excuses such as contractual mistakes is getting old and lame, + u do know that the final decision is the Govt of the day that makes it???

    Why only blame the French , there are others British (Folland Ghant , jags) Russians (Su30s, Migs) and the list goes on.

    unless you have actual info regarding the MMCRA and L1 selection based subdued figures - if no - your argument is False. If yes, why the Govt didn't stop the negotiation ???? simply using they couldn't - isn't a valid argument!
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which is why other French companies, that are willing to follow the rules, seems to get plenty of orders.
    Strangely neither Airbus, Thales or Safran have problems with HAL. Tells us something, doesn't it? :rolleyes2:
     
  12. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I don't agree with you. And you don't agree with me. So let's stay there.

    At least Dassault win a deal for 36 planes, and personnaly I'm sure there will be at least another one. Not so bad for a supplier that don't seem to respect your unclear rules.
     
  13. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    I'm sorry but...is the F-35 actually being peddled here as an alternative to Rafale in IAF?

    Damn...a mysterious world we live in.
     
  14. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    old, very old propaganda.

    The sole real fact is that India gave Dassault a deal. If Rafale was not L1 before of after MMRCA, a G to G deal would have been clinch with EF .... why not? because Rafale was and remain the cheaper option (and best technically).
     
  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Boeing had problem with HAL. about doors productions .... :cry:
     

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