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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    So what is the logic of buying 4th Generation fighters over 5th Generation? Eh? Unit cost is roughly same (maybe more for Mk 1A planned). What crazy logic is this?


    So, when I say that LCA is dead if in case Saab comes in with Gripen with GoI deciding to invest the sum it has into a better aircraft, I am not wrong in my logic, right?

    So what were these posts about? I did allude to Gripen E being way better than LCA when I said that LCA dies if Gripen comes in! :D


    So why is @Sancho trying to place LCA when it is clearly out of date even by the time it comes into play?

    Need to ponder over that aspect.
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    I know, hence you never find me mentioning them as a possible candidate, ever. Go through all my posts on this topic till date ( they can be counted on fingers so not much work) and you will never find me mentioning any of them. ;) except to say 'FGFA is likely dead' once in a while.
     
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  3. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Can you please elaborate how Mk1a is closer to 4th generation aircraft and range of gripen is always over hyped.....gripen combat radius is 800km , that too in hi-hi mission (of gripen c )
     
  4. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    1. What is good for the Dutch does not automatically means that it is good for the India.

    2. What is more important is the 5th Generation capability, that the 5th Generation fighter plane.

    3. The Core requirement of the Rafale is the DPSU.

    4. You are discussing SAAB Gripen-E, which is still in the development, scheduled to get ready by 2023. Put the amount of money in the LCA, for the MK-2 version, then you have the product comparable to it, with much cheaper cost.

    5. You can win battle with the imported weapon, but cannot win the war.

    6. You can keep filling the pages for the Gripen and the F-16, but in reality it won't be coming due to economics .
     
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  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Funny Part is that he is talking about the 5th Gen. fighter plane, but don't want to understand that its the 5th Gen. Combat Capability which is important.

    Here we are now talking about the Stealth 5th Gen. fighter plane namely FGFA, F35, LSA, AMCA -- But he wants to stick to the 4th gen replacement platform for the retired/retiring MIG 23/Mig27/21. Couple of things he forgets

    1. SU 30MKI numbers will go upto 350 thats makes 21 squardon.

    2. Forgets the Deep upgradation of M2K (Why India spends 3 Billion for the upgradation), MIG 29 UPG, Jaguar Darin 3 Upgrades -- These platform will give the service upto 2035. i.e 8 Squardon.

    3. Forgets, the role of the tactical UAVs and AEW EC, Long range cruise missile, Glide bombs in the future role, how it has impacted the the survillance, tactical interdiction, SEAD, DEAD operations.

    4. Fail to see, why SAAB is dying to get entry into Indian services. Offering everything, technology, help in AMCA, LCA, etc. Is is a collaborating global business, or now feeling the heat that this would be the end and Gripen would be the last of their product, since they don't have the resource to compete in the 5th Gen. fighter plane development. Or they know the real potential of the LCA Tejas MK2 if harness properly would be the threat. Why -- Sooner or Later Kaveri will power LCA -- so a customer with the choise of engine (F404/414/Kaveri), Radar (Indian/russian/isreali/european), Weapons (Indian/french/isreali/russian). The flexibility, wide range of options available with this platform is uncomparable.

    5. He is too impressed with the shiny brouchers and the propaganda of the SAAB. Remember the recent Gripen C accident in Thailand, that tells the marketing capability of the SAAB, how this news was supressed from spreading, and no talks on that.
     
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  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    My point was no matter how advanced these MMRCAs really are, we will still induct LCA because it is Indian, indigenous, India stronk!!! etc.

    From the air force's PoV, LCA is entirely unnecessary. It's a waste of time and money. That's why the navy played their politics with it and discarded it as soon as they got the chance.

    But from an industry PoV, LCA Mk1 and Mk1A are extremely critical. We need to make as many mistakes as possible on the LCA and learn from those mistakes so we don't repeat it when we develop the IUSAV and AMCA. LCA Mk1A is in fact a godsend, whoever thought of it, if the program succeeds, should be given an award. I really hope HAL sees the big picture, instead of merely chasing after profits, and stick the Kaveri on it. A year or two's worth of delay will still make it worth the wait. It will make a positive impact even 50 years down the line.

    Mk2, the less said the better, it's a potato.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Although Gripen isn't the perfect aircraft for India, it isn't overhyped.

    The Gripen has 1T more internal fuel than LCA, it has far more range than LCA. For example, the LCA has half the on station time as the Gripen with the same range and payload.

    Gripen also has twice the payload due to the airframe design. For example, with a center drop tank on both aircraft, the Gripen can carry 4 500Kg bombs and 4 missiles while the LCA can carry only 2 500Kg bombs and 4 missiles. That's a huge advantage for Gripen.

    Here:
    [​IMG]

    Saab moved the landing gear from the fuselage to the wings. This allowed them to upgrade the center line with 3 hardpoints while LCA has only 1.

    Not to mention, we know for sure that the Gripen can carry heavy cruise missiles. We are yet to see if LCA Mk1A can do the same.

    Apart from this, what really separates the LCA and Gripen is the highly advanced sensor suite and data fusion on the Gripen. That's what pushes the Gripen to near 5th gen capabilities. In fact I'm hoping Saab or Dassault wins the radar and EW tender for the Mk1A so some of the capabilities of either Gripen or Rafale can be reproduced on the LCA. Gripen will also have SATCOM, LCA won't.
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That was a basic evaluation. It is good enough to make a point on a forum.

    What?

    Dude, this is among the lamest arguments I've seen in support of LCA or any other indigenous equipment. As long as the forces have enough spares and support, it's good enough.
     
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  9. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Ok, Mk2 is still a paper plane but u declared it as Potato but for u gripen-e is near to 5th gen, Gripen-E is still long way to go

    are u talking about Gripen-E? If yes, then why u r comparing it with Mk1A, why not with Mk2?
     
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  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Mk2 is going to be ready for production only in 2030.

    Gripen-E will enter production about the same time as Mk1A. Both jets will IOC and FOC at the same time.
     
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  11. Bregs

    Bregs Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    well bro the simple LCA has not got FOC as yet and in first 6 months only 4 have been made so what can be said about MKIA ?
     
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  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    We will revisit this discussion sometime later - for my 'I told you so' moment :D
     
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    @R!CK Long time. Missing in action! Nice to see you back
     
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  14. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Wait, @R!CK is back? That's awesome, since when?
     
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  15. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Shows him online here.
     
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