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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Thanks for the update buddy!

    Do we know where AMCA fits in all of this?
     
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  2. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    In the other update in defense analyis, he said the AMCA hadn't progressed at all and none of the deadlines were met.
     
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  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    many airforces accross the world ? hum hum....

    Only Australia. And only 24 planes, as a gap filler.
     
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  4. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Kuwait and maybe Qatar. Not really a market for carrier planes sadly.
     
  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    AMCA scope limited... progress very limited.. no fresh allocation as well...

    May be for a Marine version but ultimately its something to think beyond 2030-35 timeline...

    For the next decade it will be a max TD.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    We will have to replace the Link 16 on Rafale and F-16/Gripen with the Indian ODL.
     
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  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Hope this is all wrong. We need LCA and AMCA in healthy numbers.
     
  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    24 Rafale and 36 F15 is largely enough.

    Kuwait has firmed for 28 EF. just intention for SH....
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It will fly in 2025 or later and become operational after 2035. It's nowhere in the current equation.
     
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  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Link http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-canada-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support

    Detail
    Media/Public Contact:
    pm-cpa@state.gov
    Transmittal No:
    17-49
    WASHINGTON, Sep. 12, 2017 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Canada of ten (10) F/A-18E Super Hornet aircraft, with F414-GE-400 engines; eight (8) F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft, with F414-GE-400 engines; eight (8) F414-GE-400 engine spares; twenty (20) AN/APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars; twenty (20) M61A2 20MM gun systems; twenty-eight (28) AN/ALR-67(V)3 Electronic Warfare Countermeasures Receiving Sets; fifteen (15) AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods; twenty (20) Multifunctional Information Distribution Systems–Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS-JTRS); thirty (30) Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS); twenty-eight (28) AN/ALQ-214 Integrated Countermeasures Systems; one hundred thirty (130) LAU-127E/A and or F/A Guided Missile Launchers; twenty-two (22) AN/AYK-29 Distributed Targeting System (DTS); twenty-two (22) AN/AYK-29 Distributed Targeting Processor (DTP); one hundred (100) AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II Tactical Missiles; thirty (30) AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM); eight (8) AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II Special Air Training Missiles (NATM); twenty (20) AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II Tactical Guidance Units; sixteen (16) AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II CATM Guidance Units. Also included in this sale are AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVG); AN/ALE-47 Electronic Warfare Countermeasures Systems; AN/ARC-210 Communication System; AN/APX-111 Combined Interrogator Transponder; AN/ALE-55 Towed Decoys; Joint Mission Planning System (JMPS); AN/PYQ-10C Simple Key Loader (SKL); Data Transfer Unit (DTU); Accurate Navigation (ANAV) Global Positioning System (GPS) Navigation; KIV-78 Duel Channel Encryptor, Identification Friend or Foe (IFF); CADS/PADS; Instrument Landing System (ILS); Aircraft Armament Equipment (AAE); High Speed Video Network (HSVN) Digital Video Recorder (HDVR); Launchers (LAU-115D/A, LAU-116B/A, LAU-118A); flight test services; site survey; aircraft ferry; auxiliary fuel tanks; aircraft spares; containers; storage and preservation; transportation; aircrew and maintenance training; training aids and equipment, devices and spares and repair parts; weapon system support and test equipment; technical data Engineering Change Proposals; technical publications and documentation; software; avionics software support; software development/integration; system integration and testing; U.S. Government and contractor engineering technical and logistics support; Repair of Repairable (RoR); repair and return warranties; other technical assistance and support equipment; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total case value is $5.23 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on September 11, 2017.

    This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by helping to improve the security of a NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, a key democratic partner of the United States in ensuring peace and stability. The acquisition of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft, associated weapons and capability will allow for greater interoperability with U.S. forces, providing benefits for training and possible future coalition operations in support of shared regional security objectives.

    The proposed sale of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will improve Canada’s capability to meet current and future warfare threats and provide greater security for its critical infrastructure. Canada will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces.

    The proposed sale of this equipment and support does not alter the basic military balance in the region.

    The principal contractors will be: Boeing Company, St. Louis, MO; Northrop Grumman, Los Angeles, CA; Raytheon, El Segundo, CA; General Electric, Lynn, MA; and Raytheon Missile Systems Company, Tucson, AZ. The Government of Canada has advised that it will negotiate offset agreements with key U.S. contractors.

    Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of contractor representatives to Canada on and intermittent basis over the life of the case to support delivery of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft and weapons and to provide supply support management, inventory control and equipment familiarization.

    There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

    This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

    All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.

    -30-


    ++++

    Comment


    18 planes $5.23 Bn
    And ppl said it's cheaper than Rafale?

    Let's go by the supreme logic of $8.9 for 36 Rafale making it's $247 Mn per plane avg..

    This is now 5.23/18 -----$ 290.5 Mn per plane

    Add no PBL and no customizations...
    Simulators extra.....add FMS charge as well..

    :facepalm:


    Now why people don't come out and say Boeing is cheaper.. it's better and best suited for Indian AF and Navy..:dude:


    Pls note what I did is the MSM way of dividing only.. but it should give all an idea how Rafale deal is a comprehensive benchmark for all..

    Remember SE

    Check this link

    http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-bahrain-f-16v-aircraft-support


    $146Mn and no weapons , no PBL, no customization and no simulators..

    For 100 just jets it's $15 Bn

    And ppl think Gripen will be cheaper?
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Doable like this =>

    [​IMG]

    But no alternative for actual stealth design. EW and some signature improvements like this can help current gen fighters, but it has it's limitations. That's why there is no way around stealthy UCAVs, or stealth fighters in future.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Unnamed sources, mixing up a lot of infos together, so take it with a pinch of salt.
    LCA wait and see, AMCA will come for sure, but it's a very long shot.
     
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  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    And exactly to avoid this kind of confusions, you should always try to compare the flyaway cost of the baseline fighter, that does not include extras, or is dependent on the number of fighters ordered.

    In this case, you have the system cost with weapons, LDP, HMS... (all not included in the cost for our Rafales btw) and most importantly, for an order of just 18 fighters!

    The lower the ordered number
    => the higher the system cost
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    MMRCA was meant for a minumum of 7 squads and the total requirement for medium class fighter in IAF is 200 to 250, which former Air Chief Raha confirmed last year as well:
    http://m.economictimes.com/news/def...-iaf-chief-arup-raha/articleshow/56220622.cms

    So 200 to 250 - 36 x Rafale we already have on order => 164 to 214

    Recent news speculated on 2 more Rafale squads to be added to the 2 bases we already are setting up for them. If true...

    => 72 x Rafale for 2 x bases + 128 to 178 x SE's (up to 10 x squads) for 5 bases

    Which leads us to this...
     
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  15. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Then makes sense to get the Gripen. Get a seller who is dependent on you, not on who you depend. First rule of business.
     
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