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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    MoD never said they what two private players to handle fighter aircraft production. Its simply impossible for 3 aero companies to survive in india. Especially when civil aviation is non existent.
     
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  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    If they wanted 2 players, they would have started a larger naval SPM fighter tender too, which would had given Reliance a chance to be an SPM as well. But they didn't, therefore the naval tender won't have any strategic long term implications for the winning Indian player, if it has a licence production or assembly requirement at all.

    IAF won't have that many Rafales for sure, that was confirmed by officials, because the requirement will be taken over mainly by SE's.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  3. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Integrating the naval requirement into MII at this stage seems unlikely. Not only because IN is yet to give a clear picture of it's requirement.

    If there's a single private company in fighter aircraft MII, they will monopolize the industry. It is precisely to avoid this that MoD wants two.

    What particular officials are you talking about regarding Rafale numbers? Link?

    Edit: Not to mention IAF is not going to get on the SE MII bandwagon until MoD gives them the Rafale numbers they desire. @PARIKRAMA
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    That's actually a fear that many experts reported for any section of the SPM, but the government realised, that the only way to get privat industry into defence, is basicslly giving them a blank cheque for years. It's a new policy with a lot of unknown factors so far, let's see where it gets us.

    DMs, IAF officials, will be home in 20mins and post them.
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    @Gessler

    This was the most recent statement of Air Chief Dhanoa:
    http://indiandefence.com/threads/rafale-deal-signed.56201/page-394#post-582891


    Earlier statements of officials:

    Former defence minister Parrikar:
    =>

    =>


    Former Air chief Raha:

    Current Air Chief Dhanoa:

    Air Marshal R K S Bhaduria:

    Former Air Chief Fali Homi Major
    Sources:

    NDTV walk the talk with air chief Raha

    http://m.economictimes.com/news/def...dia-manohar-parrikar/articleshow/56320276.cms

    http://www.sps-aviation.com/story/?id=2006

    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...the-numbers-to-fully-fight-two-front-war-iaf/

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ter-manohar-parrikar/articleshow/47489208.cms

    https://www.google.de/amp/www.decca...-gripen-tussle-between-saab-and-lockheed.html
     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Two Egyptian Rafale and two Saudi F-15s flying in training during a joint exercise Faisal 11

    [​IMG]
     
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    HAL was imposed but was a ill horse. Better not make a deal than to loose money for nothing.
    Dassault was right : 36 firm and some more to come... sorry for you.
     
  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    SE is a dream for now. Just see how many time it takes to ink first Rafale deal ....

    My opinion : First Rafale wil be delivered before SE inked... and IAF will so love the french plane that SE will take more time and Rafale gained more deals.
     
  9. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    https://www.aerobuzz.fr/defense/faire-qatar-de-84-rafale-f-15-eurofighter/

    What can Qatar do with its 84 Rafale, F-15 and Eurofighter?
    EUROFIGTER - F15 - QATAR - RAFALE
    Qatar currently has a miniature combat aircraft composed of barely a dozen Mirage 2000. Tomorrow, it will line up on paper seven times more planes, among the most modern in the world. How can an air force of 1,500 troops today, within a few years, envisage managing the operational logistics of each of the three types of combat aircraft simultaneously?

    [​IMG]
    The intention to purchase 24 aircraft, if it materializes, would be an unexpected balloon of oxygen for the European program Eurofighter. Perhaps it is necessary to seek here an element of response to the apparent buying frenzy of Qatar.© Eurofighter

    In less than two years, Qatar will have bought 84 combat aircraft in three NATO countries: 24 Rafale in March 2016, 36 F-15QA (for Qatar Advanced ) before summer and now 24 Eurofighter. In the latter case, this is only a letter of intent. Qatar has signed a few others in the aeronautical field which is still awaiting the realization, but let us make as the sale of the Eurofighter was to end.

    A total of 84 new combat aircraft
    So place these orders of 84 combat aircraft in a shaker, add the world's 3rd largest oil and gas reserves, a population of only 2.7 million, and economic and diplomatic sanctions imposed by neighbors not always very sociable (Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Egypt). Shake the whole vigorously and serve all the cooler as it is hot in the desert. The result is sparkling, slightly spicy, with a touch of acidity. As Audiard would have said, "it's not just apple ... "

    An oxygen balloon for the Eurofighter
    All commentators agree that the letter of intent for 24 Eurofighter is good news for the consortium's partners, starting with Airbus and BAe Systems. It was a nice oxygen balloon for a program that was starting to run out of steam despite the sale last year of 28 aircraft in Kuwait.

    If the Qatar operation were to come to fruition, production of the aircraft would be ensured until the middle of the next decade. It is also the fourth sale in the region, after Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Oman, which is a fine result of the British and Italian diplomats who managed to sell the same aircraft to two antagonistic camps.

    Problems with power 3
    By selling to Egypt and Qatar, France does not get too bad either. To learn more about the undertones of this kind of affair, one will usefully refer to the adventures of Tintin in Latin America in the album " the broken ear " ... Pince without laughter, the British Minister of Defense, Michael Fallon, explains that the sale in Qatar is an opportunity to make the Gulf nations work together to improve security in the region.

    [​IMG]
    The Rafale has found its first export customer with Egypt. Then came sales to India and Qatar. The first Qatari mechanics and pilots are currently trained in France, respectively on the bases of Mont-de-Marsan and Saint Dizier. © Dassault Aviation - A. Pecchi
    With the Eurofighter in addition to the Rafale and the F-15s, Qatar is offering three distinct fleets of combat aircraft, three supply chains and stocks, three training streams. But also three aircraft with relatively close capabilities and missions, each with an active antenna radar, air-to-air versus air-to-ground versatility, and the ability to deploy cruise missiles.

    It is no coincidence that the three aircraft, F-15, Rafale and Eurofighter, have often clashed in international markets. At least Qatar will have served to reconcile everyone ...

    Look for the difference
    The range of ammunition associated with the various aircraft and sold in Qatar is not known with precision. The two enemy brothers, Rafale and the Eurofighter, have relatively similar carrying capacities (guided bombs, cruise missiles, anti-ship missile Marte for the Eurofighter, Exocet for the Rafale, long-range Meteor missile for the two ...), but also some differences: to the Eurofighter for example the MBrim Brimstone missiles, to the Rafale the Safran A2SM.

    [​IMG]
    The F-15 was also sold to Saudi Arabia. There is no doubt that the QA version sold in Qatar will carry a more modern weapon system. © Boeing
    These tenuous differences prove that operational logic is not the driving force behind these purchases. A widespread explanation is that Qatar is expanding its supplier base to secure international support in the crisis it is experiencing at the regional level. It would be a very unimportant lesson in history ...

    The human factor
    There remains one essential question, that of men: when one has a population equivalent to that of Burgundy Franche-Comte, when the air force is only strong of 1,500 men, when until now it has only used softly a dozen Mirage 2000, how to multiply a combat fleet by seven while simultaneously introducing three distinct and among the most modern aircraft models in the world? Answer: we can not, except to make massive use of foreign interveners. And even…

    Or simply store new aircraft in air-conditioned hangars, as others store their collections of luxury cars to make them ride from time to time when the weather is fine. In Mont-de-Marsan, where the first Qatari engineers arrived, in Luxeuil where the first pilots of Rafale are trained, one recognizes in a low voice that the party looks complicated for Doha ...
     
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  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Finally, I believe locked Martin participated in the MMRCA and presented a F-16 Viper to the competition. I do not remember that they protested against the rules at that time. So they had the same behavior as Dassault, and they protest now, even later than Dassault. :scare:
     
  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Again, Single private company won't monopolize industry because HAL already exist. SP policy favors single entity in each sector (fighter/helicopter).
     
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  12. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    :award:
    Correct. This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to all the people here that are drunk on french wine. This is a nice deal for the Frenchies and a disaster for India - militarily, technologically, financially.

    As of today, we need to make a separate provision (over the defense budget) for just this $9 billion bondoogle, otoh सूत्रॉन के अनुसर, agle dashak me वायु सेना अकेले
    • 10 x Rafale स्क्वाड्रन
    • 9 x F16 स्क्वाड्रन
    • सुपर 30 upgrade
    • 6 x Tejas स्क्वाड्रन
    • tejas mkii
    • pakfa
    • amca
    इत्यादि ka भोग karegi
    :dog:
     
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  13. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    It's not exactly want I think : The win win solution would have been to find a clever indian partner so as to execute the MMRCA deal : 18 from France and 108 in MII.

    But HAL was imposed, and is a bad partner. So Dassault thought it was better not to deal than to work with a reluctant company, with his eyes blind and one hand attached in the back.

    Don't forget that at those time Dassault hasn't got any export sale for its plane, so if they decided not to accept it was because it was potentially awfull and the company existence would have been in peril in case of (very probable) problem.
     
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  14. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  15. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    Buzz in the air
    • France will soon talk with UAE for Rafales again
    • French DM Florence Parly and Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian is expected to lead the talk
    • There is a strong talk of a "Heavy Rafale F3R/F4/F4.2" with the 9T + engines, more points and ability to load different types of arsenal (including replacing the tanks)
    • There is also an Indian connection to this with scope of work from DRAL and possibly assembling them partially as well with the DRAL plant for a part of the deal. (will become export for MII plant)
    • Interesting times ahead even in Switzerland.... Should see some interesting stuff..


    @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar 001 @nair @Agent_47 @Picard @Picdelamirand-oil @vstol jockey @Gessler @randomradio @MilSpec @BON PLAN @CNL-PN-AA @Robinhood Pandey @Levina @Hellfire @GuardianRED @halloweene @IAF Fan @kaku @ashkum2278 @Nilgiri @Sancho @X_Killer @Angel Eyes @lca-fan @all others
     
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