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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    - Already in progress
    - Yes, especially J-Y LD
    - Yes for F4 and F4-OT2 (current designation)
    - Yes. I already said that a few months ago :)
    - Very good time coming in Switzerland (thanks to the alpine climate and good chocolate). With a new version of the Rafale adapted to particular Swiss needs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    PARIKRAMA and randomradio like this.
  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    F-16 minus tech is dud deal, reject it
    DH News Service, Sep 26 2017, 0:22 IST

    In a letter to Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, the US-India Business Council (USIBC) has sought guarantees that US firms would retain control over sensitive technology — even as joint venture junior partners — when participating in the Modi government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. Since technology transfer is at the heart of the government’s drive to build a domestic defence industrial base so that critical military equipment are designed and manufactured in India, this has put a question mark over the US firm Lockheed Martin’s offer to shift its F-16 fighter jet production line to India if New Delhi were to order at least 100 of these single-engine fighters. Desperate to replace its Soviet-era fleet of MiG 21s and MiG 27s, which have earned the ominous epithet of “Flying Coffin”, India wants to buy fighter jets from foreign companies, but they are to be manufactured in India with a local partner. Apart from Lockheed Martin, Swedish company Saab is in contention for the order with its JAS Gripen NG fighter.

    Lockheed Martin has offered what it says is the most upgraded version of the 1970s vintage F-16 fighter to India and has even picked Tata Advance Systems as its local partner. It has also said that if the deal goes through, India will be the sole producer of F-16s in the world henceforth, and would have a decisive say in which air forces can get future upgrades. However, attractive that may sound, if technology transfer is not on the table, New Delhi must reject it. It should make this stand clear to US Secretary of Defense James Mattis, who is visiting India this week. Saab’s Gripen NG offer could be equally problematic since it, too, has American technology, including the GE F414 engine that powers it. Sweden and Saab can only part with non-American technology.

    India’s best choice, therefore, would be to push the pedal on the development and production of indigenously designed fighters. The long and painstaking development of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has not only delivered a fairly capable fighter that is now being slowly inducted into the Indian Air Force, but also an entire aerospace ecosystem that was not there earlier. We must build upon both. Indeed, more than 60% of components in Tejas Mk-I are indigenous, and this can be raised in pursuing a Tejas Mk-II version. We should also move ahead with the development of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). Otherwise, the nation will lose all that it has learnt and the fledgling aerospace industrial base it has built up. A nation that aspires to be a Superpower cannot let that happen.

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/634947/f-16-minus-tech-dud.html
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The follow on 36 jets will be assembled in India, right?

    This should boost the global capacity of the Rafale production.
     
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  4. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA any info how meeting between NS & James matis went?
     
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  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    A article which increases Rafale potential in .. CANADA
    Link http://www.lalibre.be/economie/libr...canadiens-bombardier-59cb2ab2cd70461d264d8d6b


    May be Rafale and few Neurons will now make Canada opt for Rafales for sure.... The chance of F35/F18 just went down significantly...


    So a potential Canada, UAE, Switzerland and may be Belgium as well.. There is so many potential orders that if few of that goes through, a order of 100+ can come from there itself...

    So a MII chance for Indian orders goes up significantly as
    1. Parts produced in DRAL can offer some cost reduction
    2. Work for DRAL line in India
    3. financial viability increase for DRAL Indian factory thereby reducing the cost of dependency for IAF orders
    4. This frees up the Indian order size minimum number requirements and thus helps GOI as well from budgeting perspective.
    JMHO
     
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  6. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Replacing the tanks .... You mean conformal tanks? other solution ?
     
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Could you developp?
     
  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    For exemple they could have the cold start developped for India...
     
  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Dassault could buy the aerospace part of Bombardier....
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Canada has already decided to buy new F18SHs, the issue with Bombardier is not related to the fighter procurement and everyone knows that it will be a political deal at the end.
    Belgium is basically gone, since no official bid was submitted to the tender.
    For the UAE as you hinted, only an F4 would be interesting, to meet their requirements and that is not available until 2025, with all the estimated upgrades.
    Switzerland is a chance, but more difficult as before, because of US competition and probably a Rafale offer that is under development only.
    The most likely chances for more sales, were Malaysia and Qatar follow orders. Both are on hold or doesn't look good anymore.

    There is neither a MII chance for India, unless both of our forces would select it. More over none of the Rafale export possibilities play any role for India, since they include only a future version of Rafale. DRAL won't sit and wait till 2023 or even 2025 to produce something. Either they get Indian orders or they don't and that decides if they do production or just maintenence work. Without an Indian order and actual production diverted to them, they have no relation to any exports.
     
  11. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Belgium need a GtoG deal. It's exactly what France proposed. Unlike the others that made "old" style proposal...
    UAE : a long history.... but after all 2025 is only in seven years.
    Switzerland : The need is fully covered by actual F3, as swiss leaks show.
    Malaysia : OK.
    Qatar : ? the EF letter of intent is very strange... Maybe it's because USA at the end don't agree for F15...
    You forgot the main prospect : India.
     
  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You seem so desperate that you make pity.
     
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  13. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA the dispute will soon be over. Justin Trudeau is just threatening Boeing. soon Boeing & Bombardier will come to agreement.

    this is not only affecting Canada but also UK (North Ireland)
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Yes only 7 years, so we can talk about it then, for now it has no prospect, because the F3R is not even close to fit their requirements.

    And wrt India, all we have seen in regard to offsets, hardly has any relation to Rafale exports anyway.
    30% of the offsets will be related to research and most of that will be included in the Kaveri revival.
    Thales has already stated that their offsets will not be production based, but for integration and maintenance of radar and EW.
    In fact the only publicly known production in India so far, is Sagem diverting parts of Hammer to OIS, but Hammer sadly is not really an export success (one field where proper joint developments with India, could have helped a lot).
    Even Dassault has not decided yet if or what to produce at DRAL and most likely will wait for further orders to decide. So let's wait and see there as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  15. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    When Rafale sales take off, Specitubes orders take off

    The Samer plant, which produces titanium and stainless steel tubes for the aerospace industry, has invested € 10 million in a new cold rolling mill. The objective is to respond to the increase in production of the Rafale at Dassault and the A320 Neo or A350 aircraft at Airbus.

    By Romain Douchin | La Voix du Nord .
    Published on 27/09/2017


    After Egypt, Qatar and India, Malaysia could be the next customer of the Rafale combat aircraft. This would be excellent news for Dassault as well as for all the French partners of the Rafale program, among which Specitubes figure.
    The SME of 200 employees, owned by the American Leggett & Platt, equips the Rafale in high-tech tubes, whether titanium or stainless steel. "Our tubes are used to transport high pressure and low pressure fluids. All that is going to be fuel, oil, air pipe for the pressurization of the cabin. They are also used to make in-flight refueling pipes, "explained Manuel Cournot, factory manager.
    The rise in production of the Rafale, on the assembly lines of Bordeaux-Mérignac (Gironde), is reflected in subcontractors like Specitubes. The Samer plant must be able to deliver on time so as not to delay production.

    New rolling mills, over € 10m invested

    It has just invested 10 M € in a new cold rolling unit. One of the objectives is to increase its capacity to produce titanium tubes. In the long term, it is also possible to roll stainless steel and nickel pipes, which are currently stretched.
    At the heart of a building of 1500 m2, on the white floor, clean as an operating theater, a rolling mill is in the approval phase "in the aeronautics everything is standardized for safety reasons", explained Johann Minne, human resources, during the factory visit on Tuesday evening. Another rolling mill will soon be installed and will in turn enter the qualification phase for a start-up in the fourth quarter of 2018.
    For Specitubes, this new rolling unit will also make it possible to work on raw materials (raw material) of larger diameter and thus optimize its purchases. A large diameter rectifier and a high pressure sanding unit will also be installed next year.

    At Airbus too ...

    The first customer of Specitubes, Airbus, will of course benefit from these investments. The A320 Neo, A350 or A380 super jumbo are also equipped with straight tubes rolled, stretched or welded in the Samer plant.
    The latter also invested € 1.8 million in a new effluent treatment plant. The production waste water (the pipes are machined with acids and water) are recycled in a closed circuit. Chemical residues are evacuated by truck to be processed in specialized centers. The recovered steam is stored for reuse in the production process. Specitubes wants to become a high-tech aeronautical subcontractor.
     

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