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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Depends, in terms of SPECTRA RWR and jammers for example, software upgrades doesn't add the same amount of performance increase, as they would have sees, if they had got GaN hardware changes. That's part of the reason Saab could not only catch up with their Arexis EWS, but even surpass SPECTRA in sone fields.

    So when Rafales prime system is not the best anymore, because you saved some money with software updates, you lost your edge for the wrong reasons.

    But yes, the F3R mainly is software based not only, because METEOR was added too. The only problem is, all 3 Eurocanards have it and that doesn't give an edge either.
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    The only stupid decision was on the part of IAF, to not upgrade them with AESA, but make Jaguars the first to get it.
    Otherwise the M2K is one of our backbones for sure.
     
  3. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    When we were was negotiating for M2K upgrade, what was the status of development of the RBE-2AA?
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    It was available and the EL2052 should have been available too, so if you spend money on an AESA upgrade, it should had been on them, but that's another story. Now we are trying to by 2nd hands spares instead, to keep the Jags operational.
     
  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...-considered-on-future-fighter-jet-replacement

    @Picdelamirand-oil
    Dassault yes can very well team up with bombardier here.. You know falcon line along with Bombardier can be a great combination for a civil aerospace POV. Even coming together will mean new markets for many segments... BTW dassault systems have worked for Bombardier in the past so its not that such a JV or coming together can be ruled out..

    Importantly this will lead to important military deal for sure whomsoever now comes and rescues Canada Aerospace
     
  6. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    An old story yes, like spilled milk, but France/Dassault cant help to look back on the spilled milk and wonder, what all could have been possible if they were less adamant.
    Its only 36 As of now, and in hindsight, it was not just spilled milk, perhaps you lost a cow.
    Two bases were made so that IAF would be flexible, putting 36 in one base does not offer flexibility.

     
  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    But french sure do since they quoted it.

    Yeah, we believe you! .
     
  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    For a second i thought its about our DM. :dude: Giving false hopes.
     
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    2010 ...... You're late Bro. We all know that.
    Dassault answered but was found economically not interesting.
    After that Eurofighter was in touch, but found technically not interesting.
    Heard some thing about russian planes...
    And since ..... NOTHING !!!
     
    DAC O DAC likes this.
  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Honnestly, Dassault push hard to inked this MMRCA deal (and specially because Dassault tried to win its first export contract). But the conditions imposed were too hard (over price thanks to HAL, and warranty imposed to Dassault when no suprevision was allowed !).
    It would have been the same result (even more faslty) with SAAB, LM, Boeing...

    About marketing :
    1) LM is very strong. 10 years they said the F35 would be ready next year. Result : first 108 plane are not war ready, just good for basic training and some spec not achivable (supercruise, F16 like agility). CONGRATS !
    2) Dassault is historically very quiet. But don't imagine they don't work hard with its main customer : India ! Some very good news to follow soon.
     
  11. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    To have Meteor is nice, but the one that can elaborate a fire solution first is the best.
    And Rafale is the best of the eurocanards (and some more) in data fusion, and is the sole to have an AESA operational radar for years...
     
  12. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    RBE2 AESA couldn't be fit on operational M2000 (too heavy). The test bench M2000 was used for test, but operationaly it was not suitable.
     
    surya kiran and Gessler like this.
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Lol so because they didn't bought other fighters yet, they will reduce their demands for Rafale?
    You neither knew what the UAE requires, nor what the EF consortium offered them, but still keep stating unfounded opinions.
    At least educate yourself, before you get to conclusions and the air force monthly article is a must read for sure!

    No 90kN M88 means, not being able to fulfill one of the key requirements of the UAE, more thrust!
    Higher radar performance, will only be available in the F4 by 2025.
    So the only requirements, that could be cleared yet, are additional radar modes and thanks to Qatar also a HMS that the UAE might be able to procure too. On the other side, Rafale doesn't have an IRST anymore, so that must be added to the list now too.

    Rafales chances the UAE, haven't increased at all, since Dassault can't offer a version, that actually surpasses the F16 B60 capabilities, to make the high costs and replacing the M2K9s worth it.
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    The test version was fitted including FSO mock up in a larger nose to test it for Rafale. If you add AESA to the standard M2K, you obviously reduce the size to a standard M2K radar, just as EL2052 would not have the same size in LCA and Jaguars.
     
  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    You're wrong.

    A 90Kn M88 was tested. But as no one want to fund it, and because all are happy with actual ones, SAFRAN decided not to developp it to the end. AND, to accomodate this engine, Dassault has to increase air intakes, with importants collateral effects on the internal arrangement of the frame. It costs a lot and if technically it was possible, the cost was found too important by UAE. Maybe on a Rafale Mk2 ....

    A more powerfull AESA radar was proposed to UAE before 2011 because they were afraid, with F16 bk 60 experience , that it may be a little bit short ranged. At those time, the AESA was said to increase from 30 to 40% the range against the PESA radar. Reality is that real AESA RBE2 radar has 50% to 100% more range, so the UAE requirement is more that fullfil with actual RBE2 AA. (to complete, the explanation of the better perf than intended on the RBE2 AESA came from the european active modules, more effective thant those purchased in the USA during the developpment phase).

    IRST : Indian Rafale will have it. A Thales team already work on it.

    So you definitively are wrong.
     

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