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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Notsuperstitious

    Notsuperstitious 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Again, IAF does not specify the numbers for rafale class fighter too.

    I see lack of clarity here. Even for MMRCA fiasco, they considered lighter single engine planes along with twin engine ones. What exactly was the requirement?????
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    UAE will have to order more jets then. But it doesn't change my proposition, there are other countries that require lesser numbers, like Malaysia or any other new customer. The point is to make MII viable with only 36 jets from India.

    If Dassault is waiting to win the MRCBF tender and then add that to the IAF's request for 36 more for MII, then more orders may never happen. Dassault has to lock IAF in for 36 more in a MII program ASAP or MoD will end up locking a huge chunk of the budget for SE MII much earlier than planned. This will delay Dassault's MII plan until 2030, and you will have to compete with F-35 then. And LM will make offers we can't refuse in order to keep France out of the critical Indian Navy market. Considering LM could win the SE tender, they will have a huge advantage.

    The quicker Dassault establishes MII line in India, the quicker will costs reduce, then the IAF simply has to fail both SE candidates and have the govt withdraw the tender in favour of more Rafales.
     
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  4. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The IAF has mentioned the numbers they need. If there's an MII program, then IAF needs 200-250 Rafales. If there is no MII program, then IAF needs 80 minimum to make 5 squadrons of 16 aircraft each. Right now, they will settle for 72 jets in 4 squadrons.

    They have considered SE MII first because it's cheaper. TE MII can come in much, much later, probably 2030.
     
    surya kiran likes this.
  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Took some time to confirm it bro...


    What I have been told is that the new alloys which will be used to sustain high temperature under hot weather conditions will need change in metallurgy of components which will lead to withstanding better thrusts and improving the efficiency of these thrust creation system.

    The Naval offer under MRCBF contained the similar wordings of higher military thrust availability due to addition of high temperature pack in the engines.

    What has also been said is that the new add on thrust needs validation of a ECO+ pack upgrade. As of today the mean time between overhaul is decreased and Safran is working on it to bring it to standard level and push beyond it. The engine at present life has a marginal decreased as well and thus needs a lot of stabilization to meet ECO pack expectations.

    Source further added that certain new Russian engines under consideration for IAF also suffers issues of decreased life and increased maintainence.. Something seen in the present fleet Engines a lot. The main cause seems to be the extreme weather of cold and heat which seems to take toll on their life overall.. hence the new Russian engines are also not finalised till they showcase what IAF desires to have and standard bench mark seems to be the ECO+ pack (around)

    The problem is not limited to the above but also to the GE 404's that are used in the Indian Tejas . They have reduced life, multiple overhauls as well and are subject to additional wear because of environmental factors.

    That is why it's important for the new ECO+ pack to mature for Safran and in turn think about the new class of Engine under Safranised Kaveri as they will also require a similar change internally.


    @Picdelamirand-oil @halloweene
     
    zebra7, Ghanta, vstol jockey and 6 others like this.
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This effectively rules out Rafale-M for navy. I had told you that more than the asymmetry, it is the thrust which is a problem.
     
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    To be honnest, the DA interest is to built Rafale in France, so as to keep the line busy the more time possible.
    MII is for Indian market only I think. maybe for Malaysia.... Or at the express request of UAE...
     
  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I just said that the Indian market if more important and more durable for business jet than for fighter (Personnaly I think India will take a total of 70 to 150 more or less Rafale).
    So building a factory for Falcon and, if India agree to MII terms, Rafale is better than just for (a hypotetical) Rafale deal.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The MII part of Rafale will be limited to making parts for Falcon and Rafale only. They will never produce complete aircraft in India.
     
  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Conjecture. Nothing is decided.
     
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Caught again spreading misinformation and still in denial as usual, but not too surprising.

    Besides that your personal opinion is unfounded, it is kinda hilarious that you think "India" has to agree to Make in India terms. :mrgreen:
     
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  13. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Field tests already have been made? Do you have the results?
    Not seen anything in France news...
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    If @vstol jockey's jet doesn't work out, or if you guys don't start MII quickly, we will get stuck with this dumb SE MII with 200 F-16s.

    The next window for Rafale MII is 2030.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    They had specified it a long time ago, with a minimum of 126 and as Air Chief Raha confirmed ideally they want 200 to 250 medium class fighters.
    They have 36 on order, will get at least 100 through the Single Engine MMRCA tender and possibly can order 36 additional Rafales too.
     
    Notsuperstitious likes this.

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